Can I respectfully suggest that in this time of national crisis we put our mutual loathing for each others parties aside and focus instead on the way out of this developing crisis.
The start point is that this time round we are in the ‘sensitive’ period leading up to the election and while there is no doubt that the government has a mandate to govern it would be prudent for the Prime Minister to reach out to the leader of the opposition rather than treating her as a doormat.
The PM made it clear a few minutes ago the probability is that the situation is going to get a whole lot worse before it gets better and so we are faced with unique situation just five weeks out from the election. It is uncharted territory but at the very least one would expect Collins to be given the courtesy of full and frank briefings on decisions to be taken.
Failure to do that and Collins is perfectly entitled to bite back and she certainly has the ammunition to do so with what can only be described as a massive failure at the border.
As for Tamihere’s allegations and they cannot just be dismissed out of hand. What I suspect happened is that the Trust received a ‘heads up’ from whoever on the Monday that there were indications of possible community infections while it took until the following day for that initial assessment to be confirmed when the full testing results became available. If I’m right and the first time Director-General Bloomfield was notified was pm Tuesday then someone has a deal of explaining to do.
No Minister 
At the very least, Vet, the Tamihere stuff should be investigated. If there’s fire as well as smoke then there’d be trouble. I suspect it’s Tamihere cocking things up but we should know the facts. Re the rest, of course – the Cabinet Office circular should be revised and reissued. A protocol for these contingencies should be issued. I’m amazed that it hasn’t been already. But then we don’t have a plan other than borrow and hope for a vaccine so why should I be amazed?
Vet with due respect there is no way out of this “developing crisis”
The only policy we can adopt that makes sense is “Managed Herd Immunity”
Unfortunately this Govt has wasted the time available to them as Managed Herd Immunity means policies to protect people in Rest Homes and Managed Care.
I see we have failed in that area already.
It means protecting the same people out in the community.
It means having:
1. Stock piles of Vit C
2. Stockpiles of Vit D
3. Malaria tables
4. Betanone Steriod as used in Asia, Japan and Singapore in particular.
5. Legislating how the Media report the incident of the disease so scare mongering is eliminated.
6. and so forth.
If you look at the graphs I posted in Friday Fulminations it is quite clear the UK has herd immunity, as does Sweden.
We can do better than them..it is the Kiwi way.
However it will not happen unless there is an agreed change in policy as it is also clear “managed Isolation is not only a failure but a policy with no sustainable objective.
Admit failure and move on.
I totally agree with you Vet. Re Tamihere, he is in the trade so the Women’s GP did him the courtesy of give him a “heads up” that he had just taken a swab test from a patient that exhibited all the signs and in his opinion was likely to be positive and that other family members were a bit crook.
An event that we were expecting to happen and have made extensive preparations for isn’t a “developing crisis” unless things go badly wrong with the response to the event. Which is why I have little patience for politicians who try and undermine the response by peddling conspiracy theories.
The election date’s a separate issue. There’s a case to be made for delaying it, and a case to be made for not delaying it. The PM gets to decide which has the better case, so I don’t really have a dispute to get into over it.
Re Tamihere, I expect you’re right. His trust likely wasn’t “told by the DHB” but told by someone at the GP’s surgery about a patient presenting with possible CV19 symptoms and being tested. In other words, gossip by an individual – yes, that should be investigated and the individual fired for discussing patients with external parties, but that’s nothing to do with the government or the health ministry.
It looks as though NZ’s public service is as inept as that of Victoria and it’s PM just as hopeless as the premier of Victoria.
Indeed, Adolph. In today’s news:
63% Airport and Hotel workers have never tested.
Seems rather obvious that this would inevitably lead to community transfer.
Just more inept management by the government.
Saw this elsewhere. Remarkable how someone outside NZ, who has seemingly only paid the place a fleeting visit, can hit the nail so squarely on the head…
https://www.aier.org/article/authoritarianism-in-auckland/
“New Zealand looks and feels like paradise.
Sadly, thanks to brutal and deeply incompetent political leadership, that paradise is lost, lost to the superstitions of the COVID faith that power, police, and adoring news coverage can scare a pathogen to go away and stay away.
You can follow the path of infection and death in New Zealand here[link]. It might take a month, six months, or even a year, but it’s coming. No amount of force will stop it.”
PreEEEcisely…time for NZ to crawl out from under the blankets and put our collective big boy swedish pants on
Well a Judith Collins sound bite on TV says I have zero tolerance for community infections which reveals she is just a hack politician pointing fingers but just as clueless as the person she is pointing the finger at
We are governened by dolts who pretending that they can stop this and flushing vast sums of money down the toilet in the process
It is funny watching National Party groupies whine while National continue to reveal how utterly inept they really are
Rosco,
NZ is not going to go for herd immunity. It would mean saying to the public that there will be 4,000 deaths (based on Sweden). No politician in NZ could even remotely sell that proposition.
Much more likely is that the border will be tightened. No more several thousands arriving each week. More like a limit 500 to a 1000 per week. That way quarantine can be much better managed, with more capable people. Priority to New Zealand citizens above permanent residents. There will need to be some sort of points system to determine the highest priority. In short if you have a job overseas, you are last in the queue. Alternatively no-one gets on a NZ bound plane unless they have a clear test.
This will apply for the next 18 months, until a proven vaccine is widely available or the Covid just dies out.
We know from the last 3 months that the economy is not too bad at Level !. Keeping us at Level 1, has got to the goal. If that means effectively sealing the border for a while, so be it.
Wayne,
Sorry I disagree, naturally.
There are 30,000 deaths a year in New Zealand on average, of all causes.
That is 83 per day.
You are not increasing that average, you are SUBSTITUTING the cause of death. Covid is a flu / respiratory disease that attacks the mainly over 80’s. That is a proven fact.
Nobody but nobody on this blog can argue against that fact. If they do try to argue against that fact that person clearly knows nothing about the virus and is just being shrill, and ignorant.
Another proven fact, the recovery rate is well over 99%.
” A proven vaccine” You are a complete dreamer Wayne. Never, not going to happen. They cant even get the flu shot right every year…. do you know that fact?
There already actions and things that can be done using existing cheap technology that I mentioned above. see Japan, see Singapore.
It requires a Govt change in policy, public education and the MSN ot either to report the facts correctly or be shut down as temporary policy if non compliant.
This whole farce is built on fear and ignorance and little more than that!
.
How do you come up with that number Dr Mapp? Sweden currently has 5774 deaths attributed to this disease and double New Zealand\s popuation. And of course the vast majority of them were extremely elderly peope with terminal illnesses
I am not voting for National because over 300,000 people died in New zealand the during the tenure of the fifth National Government who were obviously totally incompetant in being unable to prevent this appalling toll /sarc
Wayne
The Swedes.
They freely admitted they made a huge mistake with their policy. They did not protect the rest homes!.
But they are not the only ones, the UK made the same mistake with theirs too. Where did the majority of the deaths occur in the Democratic cesspool that is New York …. the rest homes of course!
Our incompetent Prime Minister, the incompetent Minister of Health, and the incompetent Ministry of Health officials have not protected our rest homes either. There have been deaths there during lock down.
If Sweden with twice our population had covid related deaths of 5500, we could expect 2,000 based on making their mistakes.
If we are better than them then it could be as low as a 1,000 or 1500.
These deaths will be concentrated in the over 80’s anyway because that is where MORBIDITY is concentrated in real life
If Sweden with twice our population had covid related deaths of 5500, we could expect 2,000 based on making their mistakes.
What do you mean, “had?” They haven’t suddenly stopped having deaths and permanent injuries from Covid-19, just like they haven’t suddenly stopped imposing the restrictions that are such a drag on their economy. The deaths, the restrictions and the economic damage have been going for six months already and are ongoing. We just had three months with no domestic restrictions and the much lower economic damage that results from that, and if we handle this cluster properly we’ll be back to no domestic restrictions again. You enthusiasts for death and destruction make no fucking sense whatsoever.
The median covid-19 sufferer in America is a 48-year-old; in Italy it is a 63-year-old.
IT IS NOW well-known that, although covid-19 can strike even the very young, older folk face the greatest risk. In hard-hit rich countries, about 60% of all deaths from the disease are among people aged 80 and over. America, however, is an exception. Data released on June 16th by the Centres for Disease Control (CDC) show that the country’s death toll skews significantly younger. There, people in their 80s account for less than half of all covid-19 deaths; people in their 40s, 50s and 60s, meanwhile, account for a significantly larger share of those who die.
Why is America such an outlier? Part of the explanation surely lies in the fact that America has a younger population than Europe does. America’s median age is just 38; Italy’s is 45. Another reason, perhaps, is that middle-aged Americans may be less healthy than their European peers, eg, because they tend to be more obese.
https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/06/24/when-covid-19-deaths-are-analysed-by-age-america-is-an-outlier
Milt your pure emotion lack of knowledge of the facts around covid, and the inability to analyse facts “makes no fucking sense whatsoever”
But thats the Labour Party for you
Oh, so people have stopped dying from Covid-19 in Sweden, the restrictions have been lifted, the economy isn’t still being damaged six months in? In fucking Loonville, where they get their “facts” from memes distributed by fellow loons like the New Conservatives, perhaps. Here in the reality-based community, “facts” continue to mean “things that are demonstrably true.”
A simple analysis for Milt , a Cheese burger analogy.
So simple that Simple Rossco can’t see the hole in it.
Deaths from heart disease would be so much higher IF:
There were no diagnostic tools
There were no preventative measures
There were no medical interventions
But we have all these, which is why heart disease death rates have been declining.
America could also further reduce heart disease deaths by having a single payer medical system that allowed earlier diagnosis and treatment.
The UK have quietly reduced their previously published death toll by 10% having realized that a lot of so called Covid-19 deaths were not actually Covid-19 deaths
The threat posed by this virus has been greatly exaggerated but now it is a matter of pride by our masters that they have to seem to be able to control it
So quietly that a non entity in New Zealand found out about. That quietly?
Sweden has a population that is double that of NZ, and has has had almost 5,800 deaths. So ok the ratio is not 4,000 in NZ, it is 2,900.
Ross o might go on about the total number of deaths, and basically discount 2,900.
Maybe 10% of the voters could be convinced of that. But no more. You only have to see the enormous queues wanting tests to see reaction of New Zealanders.
They want the borders closed and quarantine strictly managed.
And no, Rossco, I don’t think you know more than all the medical researchers in the world about the prospect of a vaccine.
And no, Rossco, I don’t think you know more than all the medical researchers in the world about the prospect of a vaccine.
Or anything else!
There does seem to be a market out there among voters for the idea that Covid-19’s a doddle and if we just let it kill a bunch of old people we could restore the sacred BAU, but it’s a very small market that has both the New Conservatives and the Public Party competing in it. I sincerely hope Collins and Brownlee don’t want to go competing in that market themselves.
Bullshit Milt…you have no answer nor do Labour.
Where does your policy end up … I can tell you… No Where!! ….Its a dead end with no way out.
You are not increasing that average death rate , you are SUBSTITUTING the cause of death.
Covid is a flu / respiratory disease that attacks the mainly over 80’s. That is a proven fact.
Just like ordinary flu and all its myriad strains…it kills humans.
What don’t you understand…let me know and I will try and explain it to you!
What I don’t understand is why you continually post assertions as though they were facts, to the extent even of describing them as “proven facts.” I doubt you could explain it, though.
Wayne,
You maybe right with your 8:05 post but it is not the right answer.
Putting our head collectively in the sand wont make it go away.
You see that is what leadership is all about. Being a leader and not a scaremonger like Milt, and Jacinda, and having witch trials for something you dont understand.
The country has to be led and educated. People overseas will see us more and more as an isolated little island, backward in our thinking, frightened of shadows, and a laughing stock. Bit like the way we look at the other Pacific Island.
“Newshub can reveal that just one week before our current community outbreak, 63.5 percent of all border and hotel isolation workers in Auckland had never been tested for COVID-19.”
Makes me wonder are the MOH eally incompetent ?
Or do a majority of them share my view and are actively working to undermine the head incompetent Bloomfield and the PM and get the country on the road to HERD IMMUNITY
Food for thought?
Irrelevant, Wiggles, as it seems the virus arrived in a container of frozen goods. How do you propose we get herd immunity for shipping containers?
And herd immunity is not what you think it is, other wise the world would have been immune to your level of stupidity a long time ago.
Id tell you to go fuck yourself, but I suspect you’d enjoy it.
No Frink …. it doesn’t seem likely the virus arrived in a container of frozen goods. Possible … well, anything’s possible but likely, no. The Deputy Prime Minister doesn’t share your blinkered view … he has information it was a quarantine breach. Couple that with the now established fact that 2/3 of border workers and quarantine staff weren’t being tested and on the balance of probabilities …. go figure.
I don’t have personal access to the DPM, so based my comments on the publically available information from the NZ Herald web site. No mention there of the outbreak being linked to recent human arrivals.
The outbreak was discovered after a man in his 50s went to his doctor with symptoms and was tested. Three family members then tested positive (a woman in her 50s, a woman in her 20s, a baby boy).
One of the four people worked at Mt Wellington cool store facility Americold while another worked at Finance Now.
But, no doubt, this is just the lying MSM since, as Rossco never shuts up about, the disease only affects the useless eaters above 80.