According to reasonable people the following is an act of police brutality as a Minneapolis Police officer places his knee on the back of the neck of an arrested man – a type of chokehold that was approved and in the city’s Police Manual.
The death of the suspect, George Floyd, led to protests around the world as well as protests, riots and looting in the nation where it occurred.
Meanwhile, according to the wisdom of Social Media sites like Twitter and Reddit the following is an acceptable act of police brutality as a Melbourne woman is put in a chokehold while resisting arrest for refusing to wear a mask.
In fact it’s more than just acceptable to the SM folks, it’s approved:
That’s just the title of the piece. Reddit commenters weren’t just good with it, most of them were overjoyed at the police handling people like this over not wearing a mask:
“For someone being choked she seems rather talkative,” – u/ginger_idiot2
“I don’t think he choked her. She was clearly exaggerating and went into full victim mode as soon as he placed hands on her” – Cpt-Dreamer
“Wish my country would enforce masks like this. Maybe then we would not lead the world in covind (sic) deaths,” – u/bothellguy86.
“It’s like making a 6 year old go to bed early,” – u/JediLlama666.
“She should be allow to kill whoever she wants with covid that’s her right. Makes me sick watch cops trying to detain people that aren’t following the law!” – u/urfriendlypedo.
I feel sure that last one was being sarcastic. Full video follows.
I’d like to think that the different reactions are due to the man dying in the USA and the fact that this woman did not.
But as you see in that thread, what the Left considers “brutality” really only falls into that category if the “brutality” does not serve their purpose. To be fair, a few users did point out that if this were a Black individual being treated like this, or if this were happening for a different reason, then they’d be singing a very different tune. The cop in that video would be probably be classed Public Enemy Number One and he and his family doxxed into hell.
Reading through the majority of comments on that thread makes it clear that it’s certainly never been about police brutality. It’s always about how useful police brutality could be in the political moment.
No Minister 
A basic guide for initial triage I never saw written anywhere in my fourteen years first response was ignore the screamers the talkers and look out for the silent ones. Talkers and screamers were exhibiting signs of a functioning airway, breathing, circulation the abc of triage before blood loss, losing consciousness, and mobility issues around spinal and limb fracture.
My initial TV diagnosis George Floyd had no choking issues from airway compromise, saying you are choking me tends to stop quite quickly without a functioning airway.
Contending with one who may have amphetamine and/or other drugs on board, now that is a clear and present danger to anyone within range, friend and foe get confused pdq.
Those who would man the frontlines against people who would harm anyone who gets in the way have my admiration as their lives matter as a priority and they should not forfeit their lives because someone assaults them. Something confronting Fire Ambulance and Police far too often.
We have seen an avalanche as to what Tarrant should receive, Matthew Hunt did nothing to receive a death penalty??!!
According to George Parry here https://knowledgeisgood.net/2020/08/13/the-george-floyd-fall-guys/ the Minneapolis Police training manual specifically shows the neck restraint. Standard recommended police practice. George Floyd had a drug load in him that would kill most people. The coroner in his original report said “autopsy revealed no physical findings that support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation. Mr. Floyd had underlying health conditions including coronary artery disease and hypertensive heart disease. The combined effects of Mr. Floyd being restrained by the police, his underlying health conditions and any potential intoxicants in his system likely contributed to his death.”
There may be police brutality and racism towards blacks, but this case here is not one to use as proof of it occurring. The cops are being lynched by “public” opinion. Chavin is a proxy for Trump
Chavin is a proxy for Trump
Chavin is a proxy for all the brutal thugs that gravitate to our police. We need to stop selecting for their willingness to use violence. We need to stop the militarization of our police.
[MOD: As I said to you this morning on this comment,, keep up the stupid name calling and I’ll just dump you into spam]
… sees an event to beat his ideological rivals with. I see two clear cases of police using excessive force.
Policing should not be a matter of Left v Right, it should be a matter of Protecting and Serving.
Note that the Victoria Police motto is “Uphold the Right”. The police have always been servants to their masters, are usually drawn from right wing backgrounds, and are more than happy to infringe civil liberties.
In America, nothing has changed since the Haymarket massacre. Perhaps Australia is the same, I don’t know.
Haymarket massacre – I’m surprised you didn’t bring in Tolpuddle martyrs and Magna Carta! They are about the same relevance
Funnily enough I’ve often walked past the monument to the Haymarket scrap. It has, of course, been a shrine to Anarchists, probably because more cops than civilians were killed, thanks to whoever threw that bomb.
I see you haven’t even bothered reading the article, AT. But that isn’t unusual for you, is it? Don’t want to risk doubts getting in, do you.
AT there is a superb piece of Italian policing I saw on Facebook a few days ago.
They have a lovely way of dealing with Antifa in Italy, you’ll love it!
Antifa protesters marched up to the police lines, who stood there with shields up and batons in their right hands. The discipline in those police lines was something to admire.
Antifa reached the police lines, who hadnt cracked, then the whistle blew, and what a sight to behold. Those batons rose and fell with regular monotony and antifa melted away with the odd stragglers who had fallen to the ground given a right seeing to.
Being American and probably a bit ignorant of history you’d not realise AT that Italy doesnt like facists of any kind, especially those hiding behind an anti-fascist front.
Also AT being that the only thing you have ever policed is your teddy bear around your cot when you were 5 years old, real policing and real criminals is something you have never experienced.
Your last 2 posts certainly confirms that you are goat ignorant of the subject.
Wow, it’s almost like the anti-anarchist psychic energy from Tom and Rossco went out into the Universe and…
https://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/wellington/122562719/large-fire-engulfs-heritagelisted-building-in-wellington-cbd
Impressive but is scaring the shit out of me. Watch out Anne Tiffa and Gustavo, we have a couple of real life witches here. Don’t you wish you had a right wing authoritarian organisation around that knows how to deal with THAT problem, like, oh, the Medieval Church? 😳😂
Yep Kimbo dont know the history of that house but probably owned by the City Council, or the Regional council, or NZTA for donkey’s years. Had those goddamed far leftijits radicals (Milts Mob , I think they were called) hanging their white sheets out calling for everything but the end of the world. Marxist scum would be polite name. for them.
It will be good to have a change of scenery on that spot, great spot for a 10 floor high rise apartments.
Meanwhile in The USA 90 days of continuous riots in Portland, every day must be a 1/4 point in the polls for dear President Trump.
But on the bright side Patriots are rallying and once Trump wins the streets will be swept clear with “good” old fashioned policing, that is the good Police brutality justified by the situation.
You would have to agree coz I dont think giving them each a hug is quite going to to do…. I could be wrong, though
@ Rossco
Umm, Milt probably wouldn’t bother explaining himself to you, Rossco (likely because he considers you a bag of wind not worth the energy – I digress) but he is neither far left, a Marxist nor an anarchist. Instead, all of those, as per the likely rather obscure conversation Tom and I had a few days ago here
and here
are in the Radical Critical Theory camp. With the “radical” meaning they don’t want incremental change and movement within the continuum of the current socio-economic-political order. Instead, they are root-and-branch revolutionaries.
In contrast, Milt, while a Green voter, wants peaceful progressive change. There are people like him in the Greens. James Shaw and Julie Anne Genter come to mind. You might not agree with them, but they are willing to work within the existing order.
And because Milt likely sometimes has to rub shoulders with the radical firebrands on the left side of the spectrum, including the intersectional mob who likely criticise him for being a racist misogynistic trans and homophobe (yeah, I know, go figure, especially as those were accolades you’d love to wear as trophies 😳😂), you have nothing on him when it comes to dealing with the “commies”. Yeah, that’s right, you get to fantasise about what you would say to Marama Davidson or Jan Logie (Golriz Ghahraman is likely more of a narcissist fantasist than a committed ideologue of any sort), whereas Milt has to rub shoulders with folks like that and swallow dead rats for the sake of making his politics work. Which is the fate of all incrementalists, irrespective of their politics. It’s only the firebrand extremists who want, demand and expect it all their own way, and consider any form of compromise is treason. Sound familiar, Rossco? 😉
…Milt has to rub shoulders with folks like that and swallow dead rats for the sake of making his politics work.
Lol, so true. I thought GE would be the worst sticking point I’d have with being a Green voter, but it turns out sex self-ID is going to be so much more of one, especially if the next government is Labour/Green with no NZF around. It was only Tracey Martin who saved us from sex self-ID during this term, so things aren’t looking good for the next one.
I didn’t really need video evidence to know that Australian cops are less shit than US cops, because cops in any western democracy are less shit than US cops. I still wouldn’t like to have any dealings with Aus cops though, if the Aus airport security arseholes are any indicator of what kind of attitude to expect.
…what the Left considers “brutality” really only falls into that category if the “brutality” does not serve their purpose.
There you go again. I’m on the left and I’m not keen on cops putting people in chokeholds no matter what the perp’s been up to. They don’t stamp us out on a production line in some factory somewhere.
That said, I don’t see any great incongruity between the concepts “It would be nice if US cops stopped just murdering Black people with impunity” and “For fuck’s sake, it’s just a face mask worn for the protection of your fellow citizens, not manacles fitted so you can be shipped to the slave labour camp, you dumb cunt.”
Chokehold lasted nine minutes instead of the recommended 30 seconds and he died. Nuff said
For my two cents, AT may wish to consider changing their views. I agree with them.
Not only are the US and Aus police rubbish, from what I see NZ police are heading in the same direction. When Mike Bush replaced the previous commissioner I was hopeful there would be a change of direction for the better. Sadly he was another in a long line of politicised numpties leading the police down a dead end of political correctness gone wrong.
Don’t just have are my word for it just look at the good cops leaving the force in droves. Talk to any one of them to discover just how rotten the culture is in NZ police. As disturbing as that Aus video is, sadly I can see that happening in Auckland.
We need a return to Robert Peels original community policing principles.
There are any number of Righties in the USA that have been raising red flags for years now about the militarisation of the police, with all these armoured MWRAP vehicles and other ex-Army surplus equipment being sold cheap to PD’s across the nation.
As just one exampke there was a news item three months ago about such a vehicle turning up to a hair salon that opened in contravention of the local Lockdown rules in … Arizona/New Mexico?? Complete with fat, desk-jockeys with body armour and the rest. As per my post I saw no objections to that from the usual suspects.
Even WRT ordinary weapons the US stats are a bit of an eye-opener, as I pointed out in Testing Targets. Paradoxically that’s because they don’t actually train with or use their handguns much:
Which is why their accuracy is so shit. It’s also a snapback against the idea that they’re “just murdering Black people with impunity”. That’s crap and using the stats of Black men killed by US cops while also excluding the context of Black crime stats (murder in particular) is just plain deceptive.
And on that last note, despite my writing this a few months ago about Chavin, Time it was upped to 2nd Degree Murder!, new facts have emerged that make that charge a likely loser in court. Despite conflicting medical reports at the time it now seems certain that Floyd suffered no internal or external physical neck injuries at all and was also laced up with four times the lethal dose of Fentanyl. That’s why there is also bodycam video showing him complaining about breathing while he’s standing. A good defence lawyer will tear to pieces a 2nd degree or even 3rd degree murder charge.
My bet now is that Chavin will be charged and convicted of manslaughter, since he obviously made no efforts to save Floyd and simply ignored him. Callous and not untypical of a jaded cop who has seen and dealt with too many druggies – but not technically murder either.
…using the stats of Black men killed by US cops while also excluding the context of Black crime stats (murder in particular) is just plain deceptive.
You might want to explain that a bit more, because at first glance it looks like you’re arguing that Blacks tend to be criminals so it’s no surprise the cops kill lots of them, which I sure hope you aren’t.
If the argument is instead that the proportion of Black people vs White people killed by cops correlates to the relative crime rates of those populations, that still leaves open the question of how many White people are killed by cops by being put in chokeholds for no reason, being shot in the back etc. I recall the case of an Australian woman who was shot, but it’s not exactly a common occurrence.
That is exactly what I’m arguing. That racial disparities in policing – including police shootings and killings – reflect differences in violent crime rates.That it is not just a myth but an outright falsehood that US cops shoot and kill Blacks because the cops are racist. If you wanted to make that argument about US Police forces in the 1950’s or even the 1970’s you would have a point. But now?
The people in Black neighbourhoods certainly are under no illusions about the extent of Black crime, which is why they’re opposed to the ideas of defunding the police or pulling cops from their neighbourhoods, as that angry quote in my post on BLM in Chicago shows. Their assumptions are not challenged as “racist” by BLM or White Leftists, because they’re Black, and because they live the experience.
And of course we are talking about men as well, who are overwhelmingly more likely to commit violent crimes than woman. Something like 90%+ vs less than 10% I think? Are the vastly disproportionate number of men shot and killed in the USA compared to woman a sign of the extreme misandry of US Police?
Incidentally, how much higher would the relative crime rates between Black and Whites have to be for you to accept the word “tends” as an accurate description in comparing…
… looks like you’re arguing that Blacks tend to be criminals … …
to …
the proportion of Black people vs White people killed by cops correlates to the relative crime rates of those populations,
50%? With < 50% being “not tends” and >50% being “tends”? YMMV.
As an example I don’t think anyone would argue that Blacks tend to have fatherless homes, in light of the fact that 70% of Black children grow up without a father.
That is exactly what I’m arguing.
In that case, you also need evidence showing that cops are just as likely to kill unresisting White arrestees via chokeholds, or shoot them in front of their wife and kids at routine traffic stops, or shoot them in the back multiple times for no discernable reason. Good luck.
Re the rioting, the relevant fact here is that rioting over police murders doesn’t happen in western democracies where the police don’t get to routinely murder people with impunity. Looking for less-relevant factors without fixing that one first is pointless.
By a complete coincidence I’m working on another post that indirectly deals with those questions. Needless to say the conclusions of academic studies are not popular. Will bookmark this for that post.
Sheesh, there’s a lot to unpack in that single sentence. For a start, what’s the actual evidence that US cops are murdering people with impunity nowadays? And by evidence I mean more than just some anecdotal examples. Again, much to the disappointment of the US Left, the USA is not Alabama circa 1950.
But back to your full paragraph.
Talk about begging the question. There’s a shit-load of factors that need to be considered before even starting to downplay some as “less relevent” to be dealt with later.
The USA being just a lot more violent overall than those nations.
Crap schools in Black communities.
Crap employment opportunities in Black communities.
Fatherless families.
A broken welfare system
Just in terms of US violence alone that’s just one “relevant” factor that leads to others. There’s endless debate about the reasons for it – and we’re talking about things beyond guns – but the fact is that if you’re a cop or criminal embedded in that system then you’re far more likely to be involved in violence for a start than in those othe Western democracies. The number of cops killed in the USA is vastly greater than other countries, to the extent that it’s hard to track down stats for the others. That stat alone would lead to cops shooting and killing more people.
People who run around saying that they’re not going to deal with any of those until they’ve fixed the Police are typically Leftists who don’t want any study made of those other factors. Of course it’s about the racism of the Police. It has to be, otherwise uncomfortable questions might be asked.
The stats thing itself seems to have become circular reasoning as a result. You’re not rich because The Man is keeping you down; the proof is the fact that you’re not rich.
For a start, what’s the actual evidence that US cops are murdering people with impunity nowadays?
No doubt sociologists are onto it. Seems obvious enough without them needing to bother, though. First and foremost, this kind of killing only happens in a culture of impunity, as evidenced by the fact that it doesn’t happen in countries where police are properly accountable but happens often in countries where they aren’t. Beyond that, it’s clear that many of these murders are only investigated due to the social upheaval that follows them – there’s always some announcement by local politicians about a proper investigation once the riots have started, which means even the local authorities are working on the assumption there’d be no proper investigation otherwise.
Just in terms of US violence alone that’s just one “relevant” factor that leads to others.
Gee, it’s almost as though a society that fetishises guns might turn out to be more violent than others or something. But sure, I’m entirely happy to consider the possibility that American cops are more likely to murder people because they’ve become who they are in a violent culture. Wouldn’t explain why they mostly murder Black people though.
Crap schools in Black communities.
Crap employment opportunities in Black communities.
Fatherless families.
A broken welfare system
The killers in question usually aren’t Black.
Yup…. thought there must be more.
“On Tuesday, Victoria police said the St Kilda woman was stopped because patrolling officers saw her without a face covering. In a statement, police said the woman “did not state” that she had an exemption at the time of the arrest, and refused to provide identification.”
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-12/victoria-police-reviewing-woman-mask-arrest-in-melbourne/12548866
Milt whatever you are arguing and I dont really care because as per usual you are going full retard and blowing stuff out of proportion and drawing a very long bow on your conclusions.
Its different strokes for folks, policing in the US is a whole different proposition to policing in Remuera, or Mt Albert.
Carrying a gun and shooting a police officer in the face, a quite common occurrence in the US is frowned upon here unless of course you live at West Auckland. But then you’d have an excuse for that guy I bet.
I am sure it can be said with a great deal of certainity that most policeman in civilised countries carry out their job professionally or to the best of their abilities, and within the law, often despite a great deal of provocation. I would imagine you try to do your job exactly the same way.
However seeing you lose your shit on this site an regress to using extremely foul language with little provocation I suspect you would in fact make a very poor policeman.
Just saying…
But like GD or The vet I suspect there is a lot more to come out about your hero who had his neck stood on, and then out of nowhere spontaneous rioting occurred totally out of proportion to the alleged inappropriate police methods.
As usual, you don’t make any argument, you just write a series of assertions as though they were facts. They’re not facts, they’re your reckons, straight from the id and worthless outside your own head. I’ve made it clear enough often enough what value I place on your reckons, but any time you feel up to actually arguing something, let me know and I’ll be happy to read it.
Milt dont quite follow.
You are offering your opinions based on your prejudice’s about police killings and the police, unsupported by facts. In fact they are assertions because the facts about unjustified black killings by police are unsupported.
Some of the other posts above want the police less “militarised” but offer no facts to support this argument let alone a model of alternative policing. You seem to fall into this camp.
I guess defunding is all that is needed.
I offered an argument that you would probably make one of those “bad” policemen you rattle on about based on your reactions here.
The readership can either agree with my claim based on my observation or they can offer a counter arguement. I was merely pointing out it is easy to lose your shit, just like any policeman in the line of duty and do something they may regret .
And as far as I know NM hasnt banned assertions, yet!
Ill happily read your posts once you bring some balance to them.
And as far as I know NM hasnt banned assertions, yet!
If that ever happens, that’ll be you, Tom Hunter, Adolf, and Gravedodger out the door. 🙂
If that happens GF then we will all know that the Left have won the titanic battle for the future of Democracy! 🙂
OMG you’re right, there was a kind of an argument buried in there. My apologies.
And as far as I know NM hasnt banned assertions, yet!
Of course not. I make them myself, as you noted. I just lack respect for stream-of-consciousness reckons offered up as though they were worth something. We’re entitled to our opinions but they have a net worth of $0.00. What counts is what you can argue for.