Here is the first graph I’ve seen showing the number of deaths from Covid alongside the number of deaths from other causes. It’s no wonder you haven’t seen it in the media because it calls into question the insane lockdowns being continued in various countries. Authoritarian governments and the media prefer to use the meaningless ‘new infection’ numbers which are more scary. (US numbers from February 2020)
I’d like to know 1) how many of the ‘all other causes’ died because of the lockdowns and 2) how many of the 60,000 or so over 84s died from some other cause but happened to have Covid.
No Minister 
Thanks Adolf great graph.
I suspect for a lot of our fellow commentators it will be well over their heads, or their prejudices, whichever comes first.
Given the educational standards in NZ a lot of the readers probably wont understand what they are looking at or what it is telling them.
Ignorance is easier than thinking.
These or similar graphs have been coming out for 6 months or more, its not new. I fear that for anyone in our educational system up to year 13 it will be beyond them. Certainly for our PM it might as well be in Japanese.
But I guess burning witches at the stake was fashionable for quite a period.
Your source bias ” consistent promotion of propaganda/conspiracies,”
Maybe why you cannot find it reported elsewhere?
Your point seems obscure Gerald. Can you you perhaps re-phrase.?
But if you mean the source of the data or the graph?
You want an alternative? Statista.com. German stats site.
Or alternatively DYOR. (Do Your Own Research)
Gerald
You really are a burster. The source is the USA Center For Communicable Diseases.
So you think proving that covid mostly kills older people means there is nothing to worry about. After all, it is not as if their lives matter.
Congratulations on completely missing the point. Was it deliberate or through stupidity? I am an “older person” (72) and I refuse to live in fear of the flu. Lockdowns have been the worst possible policy in response to the virus. They have nothing to do with health and everything to do with totalitarian control, which you evidently love.
I understand one of the points that Adolf is making is that Covid is only a portion of all deaths. Hardly surprising when there is nearly 3 million people dying in the US each year. But it is also obvious that Covid is now making up a significant percentage of all deaths, particularly among older people. Lockdowns have probably reduced deaths from infectious diseases generally, such as the flu. Covid is more than making up the difference.
The charts also prove that Covid is a significant p[ercentage of all older deaths, which is at least as important as the point that Andrei wants to make
By March next year Covid will be at least 10% of all deaths, and will be a larger percentage than that among older people.
A new disease which is the cause 10% of all deaths is hardly a trifle as Adolf, Andrei, Rossco and Tom seem to think. And obviously Harry as well.
Lockdowns for relatively brief periods to protect the heath of people is hardly totalitarianism. It is why democratic countries, irrespective of political orientation, are using them. Only an ideologically blind fool would think otherwise.
Dear Dr Mapp; The people who die of Covid-19 are people whose natural lifespan has been already exhausted and this dread disease is only the trigger that brings about the inevitable
St Jacinda and th World Health Orginization are not going to abolish Death – indeed all this nonsense with lockdowns and masks has saved not one life
This whole thing has been a massive psyop the technocratic ruling class has used to regain control over the peasantry – the con being enabled by bleating sheep such as yourself who are pathologically unable to think for yourselves and go along to get along rather than serve the people by looking at the real data and calling out BS
Further Reading:(1) the Emporors New Clothes by Hans Christian Anderson
(2) Extraordinary Popular Delusions and The Madness of Crowds by Charles Mackay
Adolf has done us a service here by showing graphically that there is not a mass dying going on but that the demographic that you would expect to die are dying in the same numbers as usual but by singling out a subset of these people in whom particular fragments of RNA associatedd with a particular virus are present at death or in many cases were present sometime before death the conjuring trick has been performed whereby people who are at virtually no risk whatsoever of dying have been convinced they need saving
I would also note that in most modern wars the population in the war torn country continues to increase. And depending on the casualty rate it hard to even measure statistical impact on overall population growth, as has been the case of the last 20 years in Afghanistan. The numbers killed each year is only a tiny percentage of overall deaths.
It is hardly an argument that therefore the numbers killed and injured don’t matter.
“By March next year Covid will be at least 10% of all deaths”. You have no idea of whether this will happen – it is pure speculation, enhanced by your lack of ability to read a simple graph. As you consider me an “ideologically blind fool”, I have two words for you. One starts with F. The other starts with Y. Your PhD should enable you to decipher this little puzzle.
Both your questions will be difficult to answer without comparative data.
https://www.nzdoctor.co.nz/article/undoctored/weekly-deaths-declined-nzs-lockdown-we-still-dont-know-exactly-why
Because Death is inevitable if the death rate of New Zealand was indeed reduced in the first two quarters of this year it must by necessitiy rise to a higher than average rate at some point in the near future as those who in the normal course of events would not have survived this winter come to the end of their lives triggered by whatever.
At the heart of this whole Covid event, is peoples fear of dying. The only people I know that support lockdowns are old unheathy people.
You only need to look at the graph of daily confirmed cases to deaths to see Covid is not a pandemic. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-covid-cases-deaths?time=2020-01-01..latest
Uncoffined needs to widen his circle of friends as 92% supported the lockdown. If everyone you know is in the 8% no / don’t know category you have a problem. In the election even ACT didn’t diss the response. They simply mumbled about doing it better. Now that vaccines are on the way there is no chance that we will change course. The only argument for going Swedish was that we either went through it early or later. No argument that it affects older people disproportionately. Comparing the U.K. experience with the U.S.A. It is clear that the U.S. deaths are lower than might have been expected. Back in late March the U.K. deaths were twice the 5 year average at 22,000 per week and surplus deaths are nearly 60,000 Y.T.D. Ons stats. We actually have a death deficit owing to the positive unintended consequences (less flu etc) being greater than the negative unintended consequences such as delayed medical treatment etc. therefore Covid deaths in the U.K. are probably greater than the 60,000. Reasons why the U.S.deaths are lower than they are include better medical treatment. I have a theory that the size of the initial virus load has a great effect on the outcome. Perhaps the warmer weather and outdoor lifestyle that Americans enjoy in their summer has played a part. Time will tell. By this time next year all who want a vaccine will have had it and the border controls will come off. Those, like uncoffined, who want to take their chances will be free to do so.
yeah, nah, I’m good. 92% support doesn’t make them right, and I’m happy to take my chances with covid, assuming I haven’t had it already and never noticed.
Who carried out the survey?
How was the survey conducted?
What was the wording of the question?
How was the population sample selected?
The poll was a Colmar Brunson one conducted 22-23April. The question was “do you approve/ disapprove of the governments handling of the Covid 19 pandemic “ margin of error +-4%
Primo:
The approval rate as listed on C-B website is 87% not 92% based on “somewhat approve” and “strongly approve” responses. Categorical response, i.e. Y/N would be far more indicative as “somewhat” can be quite a flexible term.
Secundo:
All respondents were selected from the C-B panel, not from the general population. I’ll assume for now that that panel reflects the composition of general population. However, the respondents are being rewarded for taking part in surveys – I don’t like that bit!
Tertio:
The survey was carried out online only
I’d not therefore treat the results of this survey as a gospel.
It’s no wonder you haven’t seen it in the media because it calls into question the insane lockdowns being continued in various countries.
First, I’d assume the media don’t dwell on this because it’s irrelevant. Same as when the media publishes stories about the road toll they don’t include road deaths as a proportion of all deaths. The only people who’d be interested in having them compare road deaths to total deaths would be people wanting to peddle a propaganda narrative about road deaths not being a big deal so no safety measures are needed.
Second, this graph shows US figures.The US hasn’t had any lockdowns. In countries that have had them, eg NZ and Australia, the number of deaths has been minimal, which refutes your claim that using them is “insane.” If “sane” involves a quarter of a million premature deaths, your definition of “sane” needs reviewing.
I’d like to know 1) how many of the ‘all other causes’ died because of the lockdowns and 2) how many of the 60,000 or so over 84s died from some other cause but happened to have Covid.
Given that the US hasn’t had any lockdowns, the answer to the first one is “Zero.” The second one assumes a conspiracy among public officials to falsify death records, ie you might just as well say you’d like to know who really destroyed the World Trade Center in 2001.
Taiwan, which did not impose any lockdowns had 7 deaths. NZ had 25. Australia 907. This would seem to refute your claim that using “them” is not “insane”. Just saying…
The USA has most certainly had lockdowns Milt and furthermore those States that have had lockdowns have had the most “deaths”.
Its a scam – your Global Warming hoax has failed so the powers that be have come up with a pandemic™ to scare the highly gulliable such as yourself into complaince
They use PCR to detect for fragments of RNA from a corona virus (and corona viriuses are fucking ubiquitous and for the most part harmless) and if they find them they say you are positive and if they find them in the corpse of an deceased elderly person with multiple health issues they say that have died of this deadly plague By defining which RNA fragments constitute markers for COVID-19 they can make the pandemic™ come and go as they please but of course this is science soit will go way over your head because a medieval peasant actually knew more about the natural world than you do
Kids and young people have nothing to fear from this virus as is well known but they have been misled and lied to by our tehnocratic masters who have milked it for all its worth
Of course you being from the comfortable middle class and in a position where you lose no income from lockdowns are all too happy to stay at home on the taxpayers dime
Not so good for the independant small businessman or those who have lost their jobs…
Stop lying, Psycho. The USA has had numerous lockdowns.
This would seem to refute your claim that using “them” is not “insane”. Just saying
Just demonstrating that you don’t know how logic works, maybe. The Taiwan example you mention could be cited as evidence that lockdowns aren’t necessarily the best way of dealing with an outbreak. It’s no use as evidence that lockdowns are ineffective.
The USA has most certainly had lockdowns…
A few restrictions on opening hours and sizes of public gatherings isn’t a “lockdown,” it’s a few trivial and largely pointless restrictions.
Its a scam – your Global Warming hoax has failed so the powers that be have come up with a pandemic™ to scare the highly gulliable…
So, who do you think did bring down the twin towers? It was the Jews, right? And how about those moon landings?
Of course you being from the comfortable middle class…
This disease mostly kills off the elderly and the poor, so it’s pretty fucking rich that you dismiss their deaths as a trivial loss of dotards and plebs AND sneer at me for being middle class.
Now that is just unmitigated bullshit. Restaurants, bars and other small businesses have been getting reemed for months now in Chicago and they’re about to be whacked again as the virus finally catches up with the state of Illinois. The result is that people are so desperate to keep their little businesses going that they’re now openly defying the law pushed by Governor Pritzker and Mayor Lightfoot.
And to be fair, the Sherrifs and other LEO’s are not enforcing this shit. They know how bad things are getting for those people. And multiple sherrif’s departments across the country have bluntly told various governors they will not be enforcing the nonsense about guests at Thanksgiving dinner.
Similar stuff going on in NYC, LA and so forth with stupid curfews from say 10pm to 5am FFS. And none of it is making a blind bit of difference to the infection rates, which is why they’re into month 8 of flattening the curve.
Yeah, it’s almost like a bunch of trivial and pointless restrictions were a really stupid idea that destroys businesses and pisses people off while doing nothing significant about community transmission or something. My issue is with people referring to that dumbassery as “lockdowns.” What NZ and VIC did was “lockdowns.” What state govts in the US and most EU govts are doing is some weird shit that makes no sense, and we really need a different word for it.
Andrei, when the time comes to write the history of all this, researchers won’t look at a single death certificate. They will simply compare the actual number of deaths with the expected number. As above N.Z has a death deficit showing that lockdowns per sec don’t cause deaths indirectly by delayed medical treatment,suicides etc. The U.K. surplus deaths peaked at 11,000 per week back in mid April. That is about the figure that America has right now, a country 7 times larger. Can’t explain why the u.s deaths aren’t 50,000 plus a week now. Anyone got any thoughts?
You seriously don’t know?
Months ago many experts commented that a second wave of the virus would happen but that the death rate would be much lower, because that’s how these viruses work. The second and third waves infect people but the ones likely to die have already been taken by the first wave. There’s simply a smaller number of vulnerable people around.
Naturally that’s why the hair-on-fire-lockdown types are hyping the “huge surge in cases” and not talking about the resulting death rate.
And none of this is rocket science. All standard viral pandemic stuff that’s been understood for decades.
What “second wave” of the virus? There was a bit of a slow-down over summer but with autumn the first wave continued its path through the country. That path is predictable, ie first to be hit were the most densely-populated and cosmopolitan coastal states, spreading from there until it’s now appearing even in the most rural and least-cosmopolitan states. A second wave is some way off yet.
Taieri, actually had the newshub Reid poll in mind but didn’t retrieve it to answer your question. Bit lazy. That had the 91.6% I had in mind.
Tom, I can’t understand why, when we can detect minute changes in genome sequencing, we can’t identify more/ less variants of the virus.
We can already do that Ian and for the UK for the first three months of 2020 the death rate was below that of the running five year average – in the last week of Marh and in April the death rate shot away
The flu for the season for 2019 early 2020 was notably mild for whatever reason – then Covid-19 appeared and “took up the slack” perhaps, who knows
What is absolutely apparent is that those carried off by this disease are old and sick and are not people taken before their time
Andrei, if Covid only took those at deaths door 6months on you would get deaths at a lower rate than normal because they would have died in April but the U.K.weekly deaths are still running 3000 a week above 5 yr average.
@psychomilt
It’s no use as evidence that lockdowns are ineffective.
But lockdowns are most effective. It’s their cost that troubles me. Not mentioning their side effects…
You live in one of few countries in the world where you can go about your business as normal, and the cost of that troubles you. Well, OK, but it’s not going to trouble many others.
@ psycho milt
Not until the bills will start coming in.
(I’d agree with you if there’s no alternative to lockdown. But there was.)
The bills of this pandemic are coming in regardless of whether a country went into lockdown or not. Of course there were alternatives available to the NZ govt – instead of the lockdown bills coming in, we could instead have the bills that are coming in for European countries, the USA etc. Of course, if the govt had opted for those bills, you’d be blaming it for that instead – that’s how politics works.