No Minister

ON THE FLOYD VERDICT

I don’t have a great view about the Floyd verdict as I didn’t follow the trial to any great extent and I don’t think you can properly form a view unless you heard and saw all the evidence. Suffice to say it was a unanimous verdict of 12 jurors comprising 6 whites, 4 blacks and 2 multi-racial (whatever that means).

I do however reject out-of-hand the notion advanced by some that Floyd was a bad person and that he ‘had it coming’. That is twisted thinking. The reality is that the USA is a violent society where the police have long resorted to the excessive use of force albeit sometimes as the result of extreme provocation … but two wrongs can never make it right.

But I do want to comment on the fact that President Biden and prior to the announcement of the verdict opined that he hoped the jury would make the ‘right’ decision … and find him guilty … woke speech translated. Better he kept his opinions to himself until after the verdict. One suspects Chavin’s legal team will be looking closely at those words to see if they might constitute the basis for an appeal … that the President sought to unduly influence the jurors.

More ‘open mouth, insert foot’ from what looks like to be one term (or less) President.

Written by The Veteran

April 22, 2021 at 3:21 pm

Posted in Uncategorized

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15 Responses

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  1. And Congresswoman Maxine Walter, who implored the locals to fight harder or WTTE. Two commentators have blogs on this, legalinsurrection and Powerline, both lawyers who know what they’re writing about. Both followed the trial, the former daily. Read both. Neither thinks Chauvin will win an appeal – Minnesota’s Supreme Court among the most liberal in the land. Strange verdict – in our system it’d be manslaughter at best. Certainly not murder but then we don’t have degrees of murder.

    Max Ritchie

    April 22, 2021 at 3:35 pm

    • Minnesota’s 2nd degree murder roughly equates to our manslaughter:

      Subd. 2.Unintentional murders. Whoever does either of the following is guilty of unintentional murder in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 40 years:
      (1) causes the death of a human being, without intent to effect the death of any person, while committing or attempting to commit a felony offense other than criminal sexual conduct in the first or second degree with force or violence or a drive-by shooting; or

      (2) causes the death of a human being without intent to effect the death of any person, while intentionally inflicting or attempting to inflict bodily harm upon the victim, when the perpetrator is restrained under an order for protection and the victim is a person designated to receive protection under the order. As used in this clause, “order for protection” includes an order for protection issued under chapter 518B; a harassment restraining order issued under section 609.748; a court order setting conditions of pretrial release or conditions of a criminal sentence or juvenile court disposition; a restraining order issued in a marriage dissolution action; and any order issued by a court of another state or of the United States that is similar to any of these orders.

      John JohnO

      April 22, 2021 at 4:09 pm

    • Maxine Waters is way past her use by date as are “President Pot-plant” Biden, Pelosi and Schumer. The Chauvin verdict should be overturned as the jury was clearly intimidated by the “woke” mob and were too frightened for their safety and livelihoods to return a not guilty verdict. It was questionable from the start whether Chauvin would get a fair trial in Minneapolis and that alone is grounds for appeal. The media narrative that police are out to get minorities is a vicious negative feedback loop that is costing lives and careers and making society less safe for all concerned.

      fredonas

      April 22, 2021 at 5:26 pm

  2. I agree on the general point about Biden. However, he made his comments after the jury was sequestered so that means the jury won’t have been influenced by them. However, a President, or any other politician, should not make comments prior to the verdict. What if the verdict was different to what he publicly had hoped for? That is why such comments should not be made during a trial.

    And for those who might think I am being inconsistent, I am of course a past politician so not bound by the conventions on this issue.

    Wayne

    April 22, 2021 at 4:06 pm

    • Wayne … one suspects sequestering can be porous.

      The Veteran

      April 22, 2021 at 4:13 pm

  3. Appeal Courts don’t grant appeals on the basis that a person argues they can’t get a fair trail in a place as large as a major city. Defendants have to accept the society they are in.
    In any event the evidence for what we would regard as manslaughter in New Zealand was pretty overwhelming. The prosecution did a good job in putting their case together. In contrast the defence did a pretty poor job. They never really shook the prosecution case.

    Wayne

    April 22, 2021 at 5:58 pm

    • … the defence did a pretty poor job.

      Something a number of commentators, including the Powerline and Legal Insurrection folk, have also pointed out, but given the enormous mismatch in resources between the prosecution and defence teams that perhaps should not be a surprise. A lone lawyer is going to get worn down pretty quickly.

      Also that lawyer was getting a ton of hate mail of the most vile sort, via email, phone and so forth. That’s known because there was another lawyer in Minneapolis with the same name (a family lawyer as it happens) who was getting it as well. That would also wear you down to the point that you might miss things or make poor decisions.

      I’m still disgusted that so many big-name US law firms, many of whom eagerly put their hands up to defend Jihadist terrorists, and were applauded for that, stayed away from this case. What cowards, but it just shows you where the culture is sitting in the US at present.

      Tom Hunter

      April 22, 2021 at 6:12 pm

  4. After a three week trial involving highly technical medical evidence in which there was even disagreement between the experts called by the prosecution as to the cause of Floyd’s death, the jury returned a unanimous verdict after only eight hours of deliberation.

    Hmm – I’m no legal expert like Waune Mapp, but a mere engineer,, but even I know to find someone guilty of a crime “beyond reasonable doubt” it is necessary to examine the relevent satute(s) they are charged under and test whether all elements of the crime as defined by that statute have actually been met to the standard of the aforementioned “beyond reasonable doubt”

    Engineering is an unemotional .enterprise of course, if mild steel is used where high tensile steel is specified disaster surely follows.and no fancy flowing rhetoric can alter that fact

    In politics and law it seems success is determined on who is best a twisting facts and even outright lying and whether or not the specifications for that crime to have been committed have been met matters not a whit

    So the 12 good citizens on that jury undoubtly understood guilty on all counts was what required of them and anything less would result in riots for the city and personal; approbrium or worse for themselves

    The whole trial was grotesque theatre where pompous lawyers postured to transform a violent criminal high on illegal drugs into a martyr for the cause of “racial justice” whatever that means

    And in the civil unrest that followed the death of George Floyd at least 50 other people have also lost their lives

    Bizarre times we live in

    Andrei

    April 23, 2021 at 6:55 am

  5. Andrei,

    Jurys frequently have to choose between experts. Which usually means discarding the views of the expert not chosen. Thus a a jury may decide that expert A, who has the best credentials, has proved beyond reasonable doubt that death resulted from a particular cause. Expert B, less credentialised, says that death resulted from a different cause. The jury rejects the evidence of B in favour of A. Since A was regarded as proving his/her evidence beyond reasonable doubt, the criminal standard is satisfied.

    In a case before a judge alone where the reasoning on the evidence is explained, the judge will say something like “I prefer the evidence of A to B”, then explain why they do so. It will be a reference to the comprehensive nature of A’s evidence and the nature of their expertise. Obviously a comment will be made about B’s less convincing evidence.

    In short the court accepts the evidence of one and not the other.

    Wayne

    April 24, 2021 at 8:19 am

    • Some salient points to consider Wayne

      Firstly one of the hurdles the prosection had to overcome was the report and testimony pathologist who actually performed the autopsy and this showed unambiguously no trauma to the neck and throat area of the deceased

      It also showed significant blockages of the coronary arteries of the deceased and the toxocology report also showed Fentenyl intoxication along with metamphetimes – we know that without the bystander video that any pathologist conducting an autopsy on George Floyd would conclude he died of a fatal heart arythmia induced by drug over dose – we know this because this is what the pathologist who conducted the autopsy testified in court and this was supported by the pathologist contracted by the defence also testified

      The prosection with unlimited resources can go expert shopping to find experts overcome these findings and if a contracted expert agrees with the fatal arrhythmia thesis the prosection wont call them, they will choose experts that are most helpful bolstering their case rather than teasing out the closest possible approximation to the truth

      One of the experts contracted by the defence withdrew and the reason why is obvious, politically it was necessary to find Derek Chauvin guilty and you don’t fight city hall, you are better to stay out of it if you don’t want to follow the official line

      In engineering when there is a catastrophic failure it is examined as dispassionately as possible so as to learn how to build things better. Car makers Toyota and Kia a really good at this, every warrenty claim is examined and the cause(s) of the failure identified and improvements made from changing the assembly process, changing the materials parts are made from right up to complete redesign of the failing componant in order to avoid future failures. The result is cars like Camrys can last up 300,000 kms without much trouble

      And we are all driving safer and far more reliable vechicles than we were 20 years ago as a result.

      While 40 year old vechicles were unreliable death traps when compare to new ones

      Has the George Floyd trial actually done anything to improve the lot of the underclass in decayed inner cities of the US, Has it improved reace relations? Has it bought about a decline in deaths at the hands of the police?

      And the answer to all is no – in fact since the original incident black on black murder rates have significantly accelerated as per the CDC

      The other thing I want you to consider is the key to meeting the statutes is that Chauvin was responsible for Georg Floyds death and not some other causual factor, bad heart, drugs, stress of fighting the police for 20 minutes and so forth

      And answering this lies in highly detailed technical documents of many pages and literally weeks of expert testimony

      And yet the jury came back in very quick time, far shorter than would be necessary for a proper evaluation of said documents and testimony which hardly inspires confidence in the verdict

      Andrei

      April 24, 2021 at 9:46 am

  6. One influence not mentioned much was the $27 million settlement of the civil case brought against the city by Floyd’s family, the announcement of which was made just as jury selection got underway.

    The Powerline analysis of that selection showed that almost every juror was aware of the settlement but said it would not affect their decision. At a minimum it had to be in the back of their minds though.

    The pendulum has swung the other way from the days when both Police departments and city administrations were accused of automatically backing a cop in such situations no matter how bad the cop performed. Now, every cop will know that the opposite is true and that if there is even a hint of doubt about the life-and-death decisions they make in split seconds, they will be crucified by the people they work for, including the citizens they protect.

    We’re going to see those city police department’s affected in two key ways: fewer cops as retirements sharply increase and recruitment falls, and the police “going fetal” as Chicago Mayor Rham Emanuel put to several years ago; they will simply turn up after the crime to do the paperwork and turn a blind eye to street crime in the inner cities of America.

    Tom Hunter

    April 24, 2021 at 12:40 pm

  7. The pendulum has swung the other way from the days when both Police departments and city administrations were accused of automatically backing a cop in such situations no matter how bad the cop performed.

    Heard of Kim Potter? The 26 year veteran police officer who couldn’t tell her Taser from her gun or her arsehole from a hole in the ground.

    In 2019, Potter—who was the police union president at the time—was one of the first officers to respond to a police shooting that left a 21-year-old autistic man dead.

    “Officer Potter instructed Officers Turner and Akers to exit the residence, get into separate squad cars, turn off their body worn cameras, and to not talk to each other,” states a report issued by the Hennepin County Attorney’s Office. No charges were filed in that case.

    You see, she has form for covering up for cops who commit murder, and is now expecting to receive the same treatment.

    We’re going to see those city police department’s affected in two key ways: fewer cops as retirements sharply increase and recruitment falls,

    Or perhaps more police recruited from outside the usual ranks of thugs, wannabe gangstas and racists. Fewer police who will see lethal force as the first option, more police who will be prepared to deescalate without resorting to murder.

    Sir Loin

    April 24, 2021 at 1:09 pm

    • Loin Chop over the top emotive again, you old Left wing Trout.

      360 Cops dies in the line of duty in the USA in 2020. 14 of those from diseases related to 9/11.

      Less than a thousand people were shot by the cops (.00000277% of the population)
      Of those 193 were blacks.

      I would guess that at least 95% of cops in America do or want to do their job to the best of their ability.
      I have also read that the vast number of cops never face gunfire in their career.

      Of those cops who died their average length of service was 18 years.

      I suggest you get on Utube and watch innocent cops doing their job being gunned down by crazed people.

      It might bring balance to what is basically a fuckwits view of the situation. Next you will be ranting about defunding the police.

      Chauvin weighed 150ibs, and I think was 5’10” ,that drugged out of his mind, criminal with a record was 6’6″ and weighed over 250lbs and died of a drug overdose. I dont blame Chauvin in the least.

      One things for sure Chop you wouldnt do the job in those mean streets…ever been there ?? I have.

      rossco

      April 24, 2021 at 1:37 pm

  8. Funny how the worst of these excesses happen in cities that have been controlled for decades by the Democrat Party, including many Democrat mayors and councillors who have long pushed their claims of being anti-racist and so forth.

    Most likely to do with the connections between unions and the Democrat Party, in this case Police Unions.

    And of course one of the worst police forces is none other than the Capitol Police. Heard of Miriam Carey? They gunned down the unarmed Black mother, luckily missing her 1 year old baby who survived. She appears to have had a panic attack in her car when she made a wrong turn and came up against a White House checkpoint.


    No charges were ever filed against the officers
    which is why they could get away with shooting an equally un-armed Ashely Babbit a few years later. In both cases their actions were lauded by the politicians who employ them.

    Tom Hunter

    April 24, 2021 at 1:56 pm


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