No Minister


with 28 comments

With his ill considered and childish comment on the news that Todd Muller will not be contesting the next election. Clearly Muller has made a considered decision that it is best for him and his family that he moves on. He deserves respect for that. I note too that his wife is about to undergo a serious medical procedure and I wish her well. Members spouses are often the unsung hero’s in the fishbowl that is parliament.

Seymour could/should have exhibited a bit of class. Not sure if he’s at the stage where he might be labelled a Gordon Brittas but his open mouth, insert foot, reminds me of the assessment by a senior ACT luminary who described him as the 80% consummate politician and 20% callow youth.

Report card on this incident … could do better.

Written by The Veteran

June 23, 2021 at 8:57 pm

Posted in NZ Politics

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28 Responses

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  1. Muller is a disloyal, white-anting leaker. The lowest of the despicable low, politically. The Nats have been suffering a long slow death of leaks and Muller is one of the culprits. He was behind the deposing of Bridges that contributed to the utter election disaster.

    The poxy contemptible little loser can’t piss of soon enough.

    John JohnO

    June 23, 2021 at 10:31 pm

  2. JJ … sure he toppled Bridges and hindsight is a wonderful thing. But Bridges too needs to get over it and become a contributing member of the team. I think Muller has made the right choice and I wish him well. Seymour’s contribution was unnecessary and has done himself no great favors sniping from the sidelines.

    The Veteran

    June 23, 2021 at 10:51 pm

    • I’d bet Seymour has not done himself the least bit of harm with this commentary.

      You’re a Nat man, Vet, but frankly I have to wonder what Nat people you hang out with.

      The Nat folks I know hate Muller’s guts with a passion for what he did to the party in the lead up to the 2020 election, with Hooten running a close second.

      I keep telling you and Wayne Mapp this, but the world has changed. The Mitt Romney’s of the past are no longer acceptable to the “moderate” Right. Something that Luxton needs to know as well.

      Tom Hunter

      June 23, 2021 at 11:10 pm

    • Far opinion, Vet, but I hold to mine:

      Seymour sledged Muller to his face and Muller earned it. Muller did his work to his victim’s back.

      John JohnO

      June 24, 2021 at 6:24 am

    • “But Bridges too needs to get over it and become a contributing member of the team:.

      What has Simon Bridges actually got to do with this shambles?

      What did David Seymore have to say that has generated your ire and the title of this post? I have not got a clue, not a clue

      I know i am just a common Pleb outside the in group of the important people in Wellington who run things but the only thing I do know is that Todd Muller keeps shitting on his caucus colleagues by giving dirt on them to Journalists who then gleefully confirm my suspicions that the current National Party Caucus are nothing but a bunch of self serving hacks, sadly deficient in both principles and talent


      June 24, 2021 at 6:27 am

    • Tom
      If the only Nats you hang out with hate Todd with a passion, it is clear that you hang out with a relatively thin slice of the Nat vote.
      I presume there are two possible reasons why they hate Todd, one his failed leadership and two his liberal green credentials. I suspect the latter is the reason.
      I would say the anti green Nats would be less than 25% of the party, though obviously the other 75% would be blue green in various levels of enthusiasm. For instance virtually none would support taxes on utes, though a much larger number would support incentives for EV’s.


      June 24, 2021 at 7:20 am

  3. Little children in a fish bowl.


    June 23, 2021 at 11:09 pm

  4. You’ll have to enlighten us, veteran. There’s nothing in Stuff or the Herald and a google search shows nowt too. What did David say or is your anti-ACT bias showing? Muller should have gone ages ago – he’s a liability – and note that he hasn’t resigned now (which he should), merely announced that he won’t stand next election. Which means he hangs around, embarrassing his party and the right side of politics for another 15 months. Doing bugger all and drawing a fat salary.

    Max Ritchie

    June 24, 2021 at 6:59 am

  5. Wayne: Muller failed as a leader and inflicted great damage on his party and the Right. His green approach has almost nothing to do with it. He is an embarrassment and should go now.

    Max Ritchie

    June 24, 2021 at 7:54 am

  6. Tom
    Just on your Romney point. As you well know, New Zealand has a different political setting to the US. Always been the case. New Zealand is fundamentally a more liberal nation than the US.
    There really is no significant body of voters in New Zealand who are in the same space as the Trumpists of the Republican Party. Similarly Labour is more to the left than the middle Democrats. For instance probably two thirds of the Key cabinet (and Nats generally) preferred Obama to the Republican contenders.
    So successful National leaders are very much like Romney.
    I would also note that New Zealanders, by inclination, are far more green than US voters. And younger New Zealanders are overwhelmingly so.


    June 24, 2021 at 8:30 am

    • “There really is no significant body of voters in New Zealand who are in the same space as the Trumpists of the Republican Party”

      Based on what – your own perception? Mine is that you are completely out of touch and incorrect; that there’s a grumpy fuckwit rump out there looking for an outlet that is not one of the main parties. In the past, WinstonFirst hoovered most of them up. If that group is 5% or more it is enough to determine the government.

      John JohnO

      June 24, 2021 at 3:38 pm

    • You’ve just described a nation of dumbarses and dimwits.


      June 24, 2021 at 4:53 pm

  7. I would say the anti green Nats would be less than 25% of the party, though obviously the other 75% would be blue green in various levels of enthusiasm.

    Lol if a party alienates 25% of its base that means electoral oblivion Dr Mapp

    For instance virtually none would support taxes on utes, though a much larger number would support incentives for EV’s.

    What a classic example of how out of touch you are with the everyday realities of every day people- tell me Dr Mapp why people struggling to make ends meet would support their taxes being used to subsidize virtue signalling chinless, upper middle class, twits

    The very concept is utterly contemptable and the fact that you a National Party insider can even contemplate such an idea and think it represents the thinking of the hoi polloi shows why exactly the National Party of New Zealand is a total waste of space and cannot not be considered a viable alternative to the bunch of ninnies currently in power,


    June 24, 2021 at 8:48 am

    • Andrei
      National has a range of policies to support EV’s. They are a bit different to to the governments direct subsidy, but the net effect is similar.
      This should not surprise you. Virtually every western government has some form of policy to encourage EV’s. It is not just some kind of crazy socialist thing. Ask Boris.


      June 24, 2021 at 4:48 pm

  8. jj said `Seymour sledged Muller to his face and Muller earned it. Muller did his work to his victim’s back.’

    Muller admitted going to the press about Harete Hipango and if reports are correct was dealt to by Leader Collins. If reports on that are right then Muller is best gone (yesterday) and I have no problem with what Seymour said about him.


    June 24, 2021 at 9:40 am

  9. Actoids rushing to Seymour’s defence … as expected. Their devotion to Seymour is touching. All I can do is repeat the assessment of Seymour by a senior ACT luminary who described him as the 80% consummate politician and 20% callow youth.

    The Veteran

    June 24, 2021 at 9:54 am

    • I for one have no idea of what David Seymour is alleged to have said or done to attract your wrath

      It would seem to me the main story is that Todd Muller is standing down at the next election and that this decision has been precipitated by his unfortunate tendency to gossip with journalists about internal dysfunctions within the National Party Parliamentary Caucus

      I can tell you for nothing that this particular individual cost National my party vote last election and it didn’t go to ACT, that particular section my ballot remained with all boxes unticked.

      Do you seriously think that continually having goes at people like David Seymour or Winston Peters is going to attract people such as myself to support the National Party?

      No it wont – it is an indicator of a Party without any coherent policies or vision to put before the long suffering New Zealand public that would attract them to give them another go


      June 24, 2021 at 10:52 am

    • veteran: what do you allege Seymour did? How difficult is it for you to answer a straight forward question? Do enlighten us!

      Max Ritchie

      June 24, 2021 at 1:51 pm

    • “Actoids rushing to Seymour’s defence”… nope.

      Seymour doesn’t need a defense as he’s not under any meaningful attack,

      Muller is the one who needs defense, but he’s not going to get it as his key caucus supporters are already gone and his key caucus supporters remain.

      John JohnO

      June 24, 2021 at 3:41 pm

  10. Oh FFS. Is this what is being referred to here? National MP Todd Muller resigned after leaking against Harete Hipango to journalist

    I still don’t know exactly what Seymour said but if this report is accurate then Muller deserves everything he gets because this is even worse than what he’s done previously.

    The real question is how many more are there like Muller and Wayne Mapp in the National Party? It’s starting to look like a lot, given that 75:25 ratio Wayne was talking about.

    And aside from comparisons with the USA, perhaps we should ask if we’re more Left-wing as a nation than Britain? I’d bet that most of National were opposed to Brexit and had they been in the British Tory Party (or British Labour) would have voted against it. Yet that vote is as much an indication of a changing world as Trump’s 2016 election win.

    Tom Hunter

    June 24, 2021 at 10:53 am

    • Probably on Brexit National would have been 50/50, maybe 60/40 in favour of Brexit. Labour would be wholly remain.
      I favoured Brexit. I thought the UK could do more being out than in. It was also clear that the UK was always a reluctant participant.


      June 24, 2021 at 4:52 pm

    • I know a large number of formerly locked-in blue voters who wouldn’t wouldn’t cross the road to piss on the current Nat shit show (exemplified by ‘poor me’ Muller) if it was on fire. Lets hope it was Collins that gave him the DCM. She just needs to swing the broom a bit wider and, who knows, maybe a few will be persuaded to stick around or return.

      In fact the blue team need to implement a ‘no dickheads’ policy like Hansen had at the AB’S, both to existing MPs and the candidate selection process. Certainly eliminate the Barclay’s and porno guy from North Shore (or wherever) from selection, and maybe show the baldheaded godbotherer (and a few others) the door……let’s be honest, he ain’t Key and everyone would be better served if he took his ‘charisma’ somewhere else.

      What an oxygen thief Muller turned out to be. Maybe sadface Toddy could switch to the greens if he gets too down, being a complete fuckwit appears to be one of their selection criteria.


      June 24, 2021 at 5:15 pm

  11. Dave K and others,
    What’s the beef about Luzon?
    While he may not be cut out to be leader, he certainly has some heavy weight credentials, especially in finance and economics.
    National always has people like Luxon.
    Part of the problem of the commenters here is that they seemingly fail to recognise that National is, and always has been, a blend of conservatives and liberals. It is not suddenly going to become a hard right party railing against environmental reform ( of a light green type) and appropriate recognition of biculturalism. That party already exists and it is ACT. National only ever wins when it fulfils two things, first competence and second an ability to appeal to the centre. It is failing on both counts at the moment.


    June 24, 2021 at 5:47 pm

  12. ACT embraces “appropriate biculturism”, Wayne, but not separatism, and is at the forefront of looking after our land, just not committing suicide over an ill thought out theory. While China is building coal generators we’re importing coal from Indonesia and building unused bike lanes! The objection to Luxon is 1. He is not a team player, and 2. He has yet to demonstrate anything like the nous to be a successful ie winning, leader. In the meantime he should get to work and support his colleagues.

    Max Ritchie

    June 25, 2021 at 7:03 am

  13. And a question for you, Wayne: does the treaty make the Maori/Crown relationship a partnership? That’s the litmus test of your broad church.

    Max Ritchie

    June 25, 2021 at 7:10 am

  14. Max,

    To answer your question, yes, the treaty is a partnership, at least in so far as it relates to matters with a direct Maori/iwi interest. The Court of Appeal, back in 1987, referred to the relationship as akin to a partnership as it related to matters Maori. Successive governments have acted in accordance with this dictum.

    Of course the partnership does not cover not everything. For instance, all people have equal civil and political rights. That is why in our democracy we go to great lengths to ensure all votes are of equal value. This is the case, notwithstanding we have the Maori electoral roll.


    June 25, 2021 at 1:55 pm

  15. PMs Lange and Palmer didn’t see it that way, Wayne, and I doubt that it would be the view of 99% of National party members. But thank you for establishing where you sit on the spectrum. One point, if there’s a partnership then how can you say that “all people have equal …… political rights”? Under your system 15% of the people have the same rights as the other 85%. You may well be happy with that but I am absolutely not. And that’s not what the treaty says. Cooke of Thorndon might think so but many other big brains do not.

    Max Ritchie

    June 25, 2021 at 3:25 pm

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