Dr Andrei, Dr Rossco and Dr Billy T have all assured us that the Corona virus in all its variants is nothing more that a mild dose of the flu and that if it proves fatal to those in their twilight years or have underlying health issues then thems the breaks.
No matter that 99% of medical professionals disagree with them. No matter that the disease has the ability to inflict long term damage to the organs of young and healthy … for them any attempt by the government to manage the pandemic can be dismissed as big brother out of control. They, collectively and individually, have lost the plot.
What you can legitimately point the finger at is that the Ardern government has failed to deliver on its promises. Back last November we were assured by the fairy princess and ‘Chippy’ that NZL was first in the line for the vaccine rollout. All talk and no walk. As at stands right now we are running about last in developed countries and about 9% behind Australia which is near the bottom of the list.
We can dismiss Andrei, Rossco and Billy T as fully paid up members of the flat earth society. Our venom should be directed to where it really matters.
No Minister 
That’s really funny Vet, when you consider there are plenty of doctors also seriously questioning the received from on high Covid wisdom you blather about: http://www.voxy.co.nz/health/5/389259
That these people, who are medically and scientifically trained, question these politically motivated decisions is supposed to be a feature of western liberal democracy. It seems you would have it otherwise.
If you’re vaccinated Vet – and I understand that you, like Adolf and PDM, are – then what danger are you in from unvaccinated people? You are the target population for this disease.
That is a straw man argument worthy of Biden’s excuses on Afghanistan, where its either his withdrawal approach or 150,000 troops sent back in.
I cannot speak for the others but I am not opposed to any attempt by the government to manage this pandemic. I’m not opposed to you and other vulnerable elderly taking the vaccine since it seems to greatly reduce the chances of you dying.
But I am opposed to the methods of lockdowns and now, 100% vaccine or exile to the outskirts of society as some form of leper.
Is that what the National Party propose? Is Wayne Mapp’s thinking representative of that of National, despite him being over a decade gone from the hustings. A more efficient, effective and far better managed form of what the Adern government is trying to do? Tougher, harsher lockdowns? Door-to-door inspections of vaccine passports – or perhaps at the entrance to a supermarket or other shop: Ваши документы, пожалуйста?
As a novel approach you could debate the propositions that I actually raise, that is, vaccination being required to work at the border (which in fact is the current rule), or to travel internationally or to work in the health sector. Or similar high risk jobs. Instead of the absurd arguments you frequently use.
On the other thread you said:
Now you’ve narrowed it down to jobs at the border and in the health sector “plus similar high risk jobs”. Well done and a lot more reasonable than what was implied.
Given the pressures the health sector is under in getting people we’ll see how long such demands last, but then that’s the whole argument in a nutshell: how many people will suffer poor health or die as a result of efforts to save people from COVID-19?
Or at least it should have been for a holistic approach to “public healthcare”.
Perhaps you could try the novel approach of being more precise, both in your reading of what other people write (your interpretation of Paul Buchanan’s arguments being a classic example) and your own writing.
Surely the answer is obvious, Tom: The danger is being stuck in a permanent cycle of lockdowns in a hermit kingdom. That will kill more people than the actual virus. This can be avoided by attaining a certain level of vaccination.
You are opposed to lockdowns but you are stuck with them until a level of vaccination is achieved. Whether that is right or wrong is now largely irrelevant – that is the reality we are in. A dose of pragmatism is needed along with the Pfizer.
But hey, avoid the vaccine along with the flat-earthers. Nobody will ever make it mandatory. But we will be sitting in our hermit kingdom for countless extra months or years thanks to you and the others.
A couple of points here.
First of all, as I and others have said, if the most vulnerable part of the population has been vaccinated then what’s the problem with unvaccinated people? We now know that vaccinated people will carry and transmit the virus just as unvaccinated people do, as several health authorities have admitted (Iceland springs to mind). This virus is going to spread through the population as all coronaviruses and Rhinoviruses do, especially as the mutants like Delta arrive. It’s not the measles where we can stamp it out with a certain level of vaccination. But in this case even vulnerable people exposed to it have a very low chance of dying if they’ve taken the vaccine. I would were I in their situation, but it’s becoming clear now that it’s more a preventative treatment against illness and death than a standard vaccine.
Second, and as a pressure counter-point to threats of no-job and no-travel, what’s Labour going to do in the face of the already massive vaccination resistance in Maori and Pasifika groups, something mirrored in the USA with Hispanics and especially with Blacks? Given the general approach of Labour and the Left towards Maori and Pasifika I can’t see an enforced vax program working too well, either practically or politically. Vaccination levels for Maori especially have already dropped considerably, and that’s for everyday vaccinations like MMR that have been around for years.
Alas I am not entitled to precede my name with the honorific “Dr” unlike our fellow frequent commenter here, Dr Wayne Mapp, who has obtained a PhD, in international law I believe.
I do have credentials which allow me to place letters after my name on my business card, quite a string really
Credentials are quite important but not the most important thing. I don’t know about you but I have not infrequently encountered highly credentialed individuals who in theory should be highly capable in their fields of expertise but in practice are dunces
And the converse as well, the highly capable individual with no formal qualifications at all…
The thing about this post, which is highly Alinskian in nature, is that it mocks people with whom you disagree, myself included
But what it fails to do, and spectacularly so, is to actually engage with any of the questions the targets of your scorn have raised with respect to the official narrative
That is the official narrative that has been put forward by the authorities to justify the limitations of law abiding citizens in their freedom of movement, their freedom of association and ability to go about their lawful business
Why would this be?
For example take this commentary from a published paper taken from the CDC website
In a thinking person such a statement from a paper published by the CDC, no less, might raise serious questions as to the merits of mass vaccination wouldn’t you say?
And asking them does not make the questioner a “flat earther”, rather it demonstrates an individual following the well trodden path of the scientific method, not blindly following the crowd but checking the validity of what is coming from the podium
You go away read that paper, perhaps post on it and I will respectfully debate you
But a post consisting of insults and scorn just undermines your own credibility on this important topic
Yet another lockdown supporter disguising naked self interest with insanity.
There’s a really big bill awaiting the next generation, who’s upbringing is been disrupted yet again, but that means nothing when you are driven by self interest and wont be around to clean up the mess.
And of course the Governor of Texas Greg Abbott, who has been fully vaccinated, is undergoing self isolation, symptom free, in the Governor’s Mansion after returning a positive test for the dreaded plague
Why is nobody talking about Singapore?
65,000+ cases only 46 deaths. They must be doing something right?
The media is all over the doom and gloom from NSW!
Singapore of course has a real leader who is interested in progressing his citizens and not positioning for an election or trying to turn Singapore in to a Socialist republic
Or shock horror, cozying up to the UN looking for a future job
https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/singapore-prepares-long-term-life-death-with-covid-19-2021-08-17/
I should have said “Reductio ad absurdum” instead of absurd.
Thanks Vet, in all my years no one has ever called me flat or earthy so thats a new one.
But at least I can read statistics, and think for myself.
You were so badly wrong about Trump you still have egg on your face and please dont trot out your argument that Biden and Trump were equally bad as in hindsight that wont fly either.
I have never had a problem with you or your age group, or the people at risk being targeted with experimental drugs. That is sensible.
But below age 60, and young people, and lockdowns and infinite lockdowns and the naïve belief that drugs will save you!,
Now its going to be booster after booster till the end of time, masks that are useless and the Govt in our lives for decades.
As the good doctor says on the video, all based on official information from the Israeli Health service and the UK MOH
the drugs wont save you it mutates too quicklly, its not like other diseases
the drugs at best are good for 8 months
the drugs aren’t tested, not till 2023 will they be truly approved
The drugs will only lessen the effects if you get a case.
However apart from the poke at us, I would not disagee with you on your conclusions.
Vet stay safe, after all it is your personal responsibility.
And everything Ashley tells you is true, cough , cough (thats a pre covid cough)
Tom … I repeat yet again that my Party is a broad church Party and tolerates a range of views and long may it continue to do so. Both National and ACT appear to be broadly in lockstep in their responses to the Ardern government’s performance in managing the pandemic pointing out their abject failure to ensure border workers are properly vaccinated; the debacle regarding the management of managed quarantine facilities and the over hype and under-delivery of the vaccine rollout which sees NZL in bottom place among a range of developed (and not so developed) nations.
If I am representing ACT’s position then please tell me because if I’m not then you are, by extension, criticisng ACT also.
From what I’ve seen of Seymour he’s going down slightly different lines of how this nation can escape this situation, while buying into the fear and panic that enables it.
In which case, yeah, I’m criticising them on this issue too.
Oh and one more thing. National has often said that as a broadchurch it includes both “Liberals” (English not US sense) and Conservatives, so I’m just wondering what National Conservatives have conserved about NZ in the last fifty years?
You can’t manage what’s unmanageable. Unless you suspend all normal functions of life, which is what lockdowns are. But this is not management, this is madness.
Tom … you/we are in danger of thread-jacking but, and acknowledging that the terms liberal and conservative mean different things to different people and just one example I would point to is the refusal by National to sign up to the scare, horror, rush to save the planet from the impending doom of climate change by bringing in punitive measures designed to further handicap the farming sector championed by Labour and the Greens and instead preferring a more evidenced based approach taking account of advances in agri-science and working with the industry in its decision making as representing National’s conservative (and rural) base exerting itself.
This fresh out of Denmark.
Vet can you call the UN and report the Danes please
Tell the UN there has been an out break of common sense in Denmark and it needs to be crushed, perhaps suggest lockdowns.
“The Danish parliament recently decided in Copenhagen that all Corona measures should be ended from October 1. There will therefore no longer be a mask requirement and the test regime will be abolished. The Danes will then no longer have to provide evidence of whether they are vxxxnated or unvxxxnated, or whether they have tested positive or negative.”
“Denmark’s SSI infectious diseases agency said it no longer relied