No Minister

Listen to The Greenies and The Frogs Squeal

Australia has ditched its ridiculous contract with a French company for the construction of a fleet of obsolete diesel submarines, ready for service after the next war is lost. In a ground breaking decision, American designed NUCLEAR submarines will be built in Adelaide.

Australia will acquire at least eight nuclear-powered submarines in a once-in-a-generation decision that will deliver the nation unprecedented strike capability and require a significant boost to Defence spending.

The new nuclear boats will be delivered under a historic Defence technology partnership between Australia, the United States and the United Kingdom – called AUKUS – to meet rising Chinese strategic threats.

The submarines will cost more than the estimated $90 billion price tag for the now-cancelled French-designed Attack-class submarines.

Australian greenies are screaming.

French boat builders are moaning.

New Zealand is ignored. China can have the place.

Written by adolffinkensen

September 16, 2021 at 1:11 pm

Posted in Australia, Military

Tagged with , ,

21 Responses

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  1. NZ now further alienated from Australia and the rest of 4.5 Eyes. In my day (I was the ANZUS desk officer as DDPlans at Def HQ) while NZ didn’t pull its weight we at least contributed a bit. But that was before Lange pulled the plug. It’s been all downhill from then on. This new setup means that we are now even less relevant. A future National/ACT government will have to bite a very expensive bullet.

    Cassandra

    September 16, 2021 at 1:17 pm

    • They won’t.

      Tom Hunter

      September 16, 2021 at 1:20 pm

  2. Hmmm… Hardline police actions controlling people’s movements, with plenty of arrests. Papers needed for internal travel. Tracking apps installed in phones. Camps being built for “quarantine”. A certain chunk of the population that will be excluded from much of society.

    And now they’re upping their military significantly.

    I’m sensing an historic pattern.

    Tom Hunter

    September 16, 2021 at 1:19 pm

  3. New Zealand will be expected to say how we are going to replace the two ANZAC frigates and the two OPV’s. The frigates are 24 and 22 years old. They will be able to go through to the mid 2030’s. But that means the replacement programme needs to start. Evaluation of choices, etc.
    Australia will expect us to make a serious choice. Clearly they are stepping up and they will expect us to do similar.
    That is a debate the Minister needs to lead. The debate is already underway in “Line of Defence”. Given that the next election is two years away the government wont be able to be sent on the matter for the whole of that time.

    Wayne

    September 16, 2021 at 1:45 pm

  4. I should also note that NZ will need to increase defence spending from about 1.0% of GDP to around 1.2%. That would mean an extra $600 million per year, The increase is enough to pay for the ongoing costs of four decent ships, maybe six.

    As for the Aussie decision on nuclear subs, I imagine the French will expect the Aussies to switch to the French nuclear boat. The current contract is based on converting the French nuclear boat to a conventional powered boat. An expensive thing to do.

    Wayne

    September 16, 2021 at 1:51 pm

    • The French can expect all they want. It won’t happen. The technology is American.

      adolffinkensen

      September 16, 2021 at 2:02 pm

  5. Well we need to have a serious look at what are our defense fundamentals.

    At the end of the day geography is the key, as it was in WW2. China like Japan did will threaten the sea lanes around Australia and they will need to be kept open by the Aussies and the Americans. This is the longer term threat.

    Our other need is to be able to chase, board and sink, if necessary Chinese illegal fishing boats, thats the near term threat.

    Thirdly to be able to deliver aid to our near neighbors in the event of a disaster.

    Our purchases of naval power need to reflect these needs. Clearly we are not a submarine power so I guess it comes down to frigates, how many and what capability.

    However by the time Labour is finished the cupboard will be bare.

    On the bright side there are massive savings to be made in welfare and every Govt department, 40,000 Govt employees to be got rid of, at least, and all there associated costs, grants for the Arts, closing peripheral quangos etc etc

    Its a question of intestinal fortitude.

    Second thoughts forget it.

    Lets just start training our women as Chinese sex slaves, and the men for coping with conditions on the Chinese frontier in the slave camps. 2 weeks mandatory labour at Waiouru every year should cover it.

    rossco

    September 16, 2021 at 2:03 pm

  6. I hit the paywall on that link Adolf, not even an intro showing. Not that I want to see the whole thing, but a couple of cut and pasted paragraphs would be good.

    Tom Hunter

    September 16, 2021 at 2:07 pm

  7. One aspect that’s very interesting is what this says about a strategic change in Australia’s naval posture. it’s long been common knowledge that their sub fleet was optimized for operations in the littoral South China Sea. Going to nuclear power suggests, but doesn’t confirm, that they’re shifting to Pacific blue-water deployment, where it can now work in company with the RN and USN.

    On top of that I wonder what this suggests about defending against the nine dash line? It could mean that Tawain and perhaps the Phillipines would only be defended up to a point, with the old WWI deep fallback of the Pacific Ocean as the real area of contest?

    Tom Hunter

    September 16, 2021 at 2:28 pm

  8. Hmmmmm … ANZUS is dead in the water and has been for a very long time and now, phoenix like, AUKUS emerges to take its place leaving NZL in its wake. I guess Labour and the Greens won’t loose too much sleep over this but the reality is that its another straw to the wind pointer to New Zealand’s essentially nonaligned status.

    The Veteran

    September 16, 2021 at 2:46 pm

  9. Renewing the navy needs to be started now. At present we cannot guarantee a capacity; with only 2 frigates there are times, perhaps a third of the year, when we do not have any ready for sea. The next war will not have a lead in time like the 30s or a phony war period. It’ll be slam-bam, thank you ma’am, and if we’re not ready then it’ll be all over a few weeks later. The NZ Minister of Defence is a well-known strategic thinker with a keen interest in his portfolio so I imagine there’s a position paper in the pipe-line. The National spokesman should ask a few questions.

    Cassandra

    September 16, 2021 at 2:48 pm

  10. I’ve just had a look at the National Party Website and Chris Penk’s, the spokesman on Defence. Nothing about Defence on either. Which doesn’t surprise me. Saddens me, but doesn’t surprise.

    Cassandra

    September 16, 2021 at 2:57 pm

  11. And note that the Australian Labor Party has a section on its website on its commitment to a strong Defence force! The LABOR Party, yet our National Party has nothing.

    Cassandra

    September 16, 2021 at 3:02 pm

  12. Sorry to do this as separate comments but that’s the best way for me.

    The ACT website at least mentions having an adequate defence capability. Only one line and adequate is not defined but it’s more than National and of course Labour would like it all to go away.

    Cassandra

    September 16, 2021 at 3:07 pm

    • As the old saying goes “The Generals are always planning to fight the last war”

      That’s why submarines are a thing – they were used to strangle Japanese merchant shipping and starve the place out

      That and aircraft carriers to conquer and hold strategic territory that allowed land based attacks on shipping and Japan itself

      But maybe the way to defeat a people is to convince them that they need to stay home and not go to work or send their kids to school.

      And to only allow them to go out, faces covered , to gather the basic necessities to keep them alive

      Isolate them from one another while breaking their hearts and breaking their spirits

      Andrei

      September 16, 2021 at 3:24 pm

  13. This fleet wont be ready until 2040,

    A lot of water will flow under the keel between now and then, including I suspect Australia being completely bankrupted along with a strong possibility of the break up of the USA into two or more separate entities.

    Andrei

    September 16, 2021 at 3:11 pm

    • Not sure Australia will be bankrupted. Their natural resources will save them from that.

      At least they exploit them to the countries benefit.

      pdm1946

      September 16, 2021 at 4:27 pm

    • Andrei,
      Yes, you are right. The last sub is probably going to be delivered in 2040, but the first one will be delivered in about 8 to 10 years.
      As for the US breaking up. No, that won’t happen.
      Tom,
      The subs will still operate in the same area, but being nuclear they will have a much longer time on patrol than the current subs.
      The Veteran,
      I don’t buy the idea that NZ will become essentially non-aligned. There will be a lot of pressure on the current majority Labour govt to make a serious decision about replacing the ANZAC frigates, especially if they face a risk that they will be in an actual coalition with the Greens from 2023.

      Wayne

      September 16, 2021 at 4:33 pm

    • As for the US breaking up. No, that won’t happen.

      LOL – nothing lasts forever Wayne, its not a matter of will it happen, it will. It is only a question of when.

      That is the nature of the world

      As for these submarines, will the fleet ever be completed? I doubt it, A few may see the light of day but priorities will change and if there is a war with another major power they will be rendered useless within the first few days or even hours of the conflict – history tells us that

      Eisenhower famously said. “A battle plan is something that lasts until first contact with the enemy”

      Andrei

      September 16, 2021 at 6:17 pm

  14. I’m reminded the $400 billion French submarine con job was cooked up on Malcolm Turnbull’s watch.

    Never again should the Australian Libs or the NZ Nats accept for preselection anyone who attempted preselection for Labor/Labour

    adolffinkensen

    September 16, 2021 at 4:38 pm

  15. Today’s dumbest headline, from The Australian.

    ‘Peter Dutton must push the US for submarine technology that can match China’s.’

    Errhemmm. Wouldn’t we be better to push for technology that is better than China’s

    adolffinkensen

    September 16, 2021 at 6:55 pm


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