No Minister


Let me make it very clear where I sit on Ardern’s announcement today that teachers will be required to be fully vaccinated on pain on loosing their jobs. I do this as a National Party activist and acknowledging that I don’t speak for the Party in the same way as my good friend Tom H is want to point point out that he doesn’t speak for ACT in his various posts.

Let’s put all that to one-side. I can understand the mandate as it applies to international travel. That decision is out of our hands. It’s made by other jurisdictions. I can understand the decision as it applies to front-line border workers. I can accept the mandate for certain medical professionals but there needs to be much further clarity as to whom that applies.

But I CANNOT accept the mandate for the teaching profession (and support staff). I was involved in that industry for nigh on 14 years and can say with some confidence it was like herding cats. There will be some in that profession who, for what ever reason, will decline vaccination. So are they to be cast out onto the streets and let go, thank you but no thanks? One suspects this will be a godsend for employment lawyers. But more importantly let’s take that one step further. Are students who decline to be vaccinated to be denied entry into the classroom?

Where does it stop … today the classroom … tomorrow where?

Written by The Veteran

October 11, 2021 at 7:20 pm

35 Responses

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  1. Looks like it won’t stop.

    Probably won’t play out the way the government expects, though. Might end up causing staff shortages in medical and teaching, and with people not being able to enter the country easily, those that are forced out will be almost impossible to replace.

    This has to be a major blunder.

    Lucia Maria

    October 11, 2021 at 7:57 pm

  2. “Are students who decline to be vaccinated to be denied entry into the classroom?”
    They are already talking about children having to prove they have been vaccinated, otherwise they end up on a list.
    Effectively, this means the schoolground becomes a battleground with kids been set against each other.
    There will be Government approved peer pressure on kids to ‘do the right thing’.
    The fact that a school is meant to be a positive environment for children to thrive is going to become irrelevent and one of the casulties of the battle.
    The fact that children are immune to covid, is an inconvenient fact that will be ignored, as is the fact that vaccinated children can still be a carrier.
    Children have a bigger risk from the vaccination than from the disease.

    All of this is in the name of protecting the elderly with ‘one foot in the grave and the other on a banana skin’ at the expense of children.


    October 11, 2021 at 8:09 pm

    • Could be to the advantage of ACT if they can be smart about it. In the USA the public school system seems to have lost millions of kids to home schooling and charter schools in the past year.

      The irony is that the teachers unions and Public school administrators basically pushed them into it, first by closing schools and conducting Zoom classes that wore down and dispirited the kids, until their parents stepped in. Second by parents suddenly getting a look into what and how their kids were being taught.

      Same could happen here. I don’t know how we could have done it but looking back on the public education that two of kids got I’m beginning to wish we’d done home-schooling. Luckily we’re a family that loves diving into history, culture and science anyway, although maths took a bit of a back seat!!

      Tom Hunter

      October 11, 2021 at 8:30 pm

    • It looks like home schooling via Te Kura (correspondence) may be an option if this lockdown insanity continues then. I’m not happy with the status quo, and my kids deserve better.


      October 11, 2021 at 10:38 pm

  3. So when will she mandate that Maoris (and the odd Pakeha) who bash their kids to death will be deprived of all funds from WINZ?


    October 11, 2021 at 8:14 pm

  4. If teachers refuse vaccination and create staff shortages, Rutherford said they’ll have to “watch this really closely”.

    “This is an education sector that is already struggling with staffing. So decisions like this by the government – while they are the right ones in terms of safety – they are going to have flow-on effects.”

    Primary teachers’ union responds to mandatory vaccination

    Lucia Maria

    October 11, 2021 at 8:24 pm

    • Yet again the union proves they’re not there for their members.


      October 11, 2021 at 9:05 pm

    • And less, the kids.

      “Conversations I’ve been having with principals over the last couple weeks, they believe that even the parent community don’t think it’s safe enough to go back and they were anticipating relatively low levels of students turning up.”

      Safe enough? Safe from what? Despite endless, daily reading about this virus I have not come across any reports that demonstrated any transfer of the virus from child to adult and bugger all adult to child. And even if the kids did catch the virus from an adult teacher their chances of even developing symptoms are hundreds of thousands to one against: millions to one for dying.

      As far as adult-to-adult is concerned, how many teachers are aged 65+? How many suffer from the sort of co-morbidities the Covid-19 homes in on? How many such people still live with elderly parents or grand-parents that they might infect and who are not vaccinated?

      And all this fear was around the original Alpha variant. The damned Delta has followed the evolutionary pathway of gaining greater re-production by being more infectious and less lethal, which is why we’re seeing so much MSM screeching about cases rather than deaths.

      1621 cases in this outbreak for two deaths. That’s a CFR of 0.0012. Hospitalisations? A dozen or so in ICU.

      It’s already safe enough – unless you’ve been frightened to death.

      Tom Hunter

      October 11, 2021 at 9:57 pm

  5. Luckily my wife was going to retire from teaching disabled pre-school kids at the end of this year anyway so the Jan 1st thing for early childhood won’t catch her. In any case it’s unlikely that her work would have re-started in the 4th term anyhow.

    My daughter is teaching after-school art classes three times a week and she was planning for end-of-year finish as well. But it’s been Zoom classes for weeks now anyway and that looked to continue so…

    Probably the biggest impact is on my youngest son, who was planning a career in the “hospitality” business but now looks like even his internships (part of the course) are dead. Time to change careers as he said; it sure as hell looks like he’d be wasting money going back for his second year…

    Our oldest works for a US firm as an engineer and even he may not escape the fallout.

    Luckily they all have US citizenship so as I joke to them, they may have to risk more freedom for a higher chance of walking into a civil war.

    Looks like I’m the only one who won’t be getting hit! . Well, aside from being left behind in NZ, but if that happened we’d follow the kids I guess.

    Tom Hunter

    October 11, 2021 at 8:50 pm

  6. Where does it stop … today the classroom … tomorrow where?

    The writing has been on the wall for months now where we are headed – Europe is nearly there

    Seems innocuous enough, its to keep is “safe”.

    But what it is is a surrender pf our personal autonomy and free will to our “benevolent” masters who only have our best interests at heart.

    Jacinda Ardern has said that Music Festivals and so forth maybe able go ahead this summer – how “kind” of her. What generous Mistress she be

    But only those with “Vaccine Passport” will be granted admission

    So J. Ardern is now the arbiter of who may and who may not attend music festivals ands the like this summer

    And only those that do as she says will be permitted entry!

    How does this “Vaccine Passport” actually work?

    It contains a QR code which can be scanned at point of entry = the scanner then “phones home” and checks your “jabs” are up to date using your QR code then grants or denies permission for your admittance

    Aint that sweet? Luckily Big Government and Bureaucracies are entirely trustworthy and only have our best interests at heart

    They would never find other public safety measures to add to the criteria to be checked before granting permission for the doors to be opened to you or extend the venues to which these measures might be applied like, oh I don’t know, like supermarkets where your buy your food

    All the drama we have seen so far has been to soften us up to submit to the greatest tyranny of all time

    The theatre of the masks, supermarket workers in high viz vests, the klaxon initiating “This is a Covid announcement…” is all to make us feel ill at ease the whole time

    And we can only go back to “normal” when we are all “jabbed” and we can be confident that there is no “unjabbed” oik in our vicinity

    And this is what that nice Jacinda Ardern will do for us – allow us to go back to how things were with our shiny new “Vaccine Passport” keeping us safe

    And provided we do whatever the Government tells us we have to do to keep it current we will be able to work, go to the shops and enjoy some recreation safe in the knowledge the Government is watching out for us

    And if we don’t do what the Government wants they can shut all doors to us until we comply


    October 12, 2021 at 5:37 am

    • Great piece of work Andrei.

      As Aldous Huxley said

      ” People will come to love their oppression, to adore the technologies that undo their capacities to think “


      October 12, 2021 at 8:07 am

  7. Meanwhile some of you may well ask what the opposition is up to.

    Some of you may even think the current move by the Govt is an inflection point, a nexus, and might wonder what the part of freedom and initiative, and the party of individualism and self reliance is doing.?

    Well , sorry, Judith thinks that the super spreader in Northland should be dobbed in by the general public.

    Yep ladies and gentlemen that is the total sum of it…your alternative is exactly the same as your oppressor.!

    Vet well maybe an activist for National but it isn’t the Party he started out with. If I’m right they left him, but I maybe wrong in that judgement too


    October 12, 2021 at 8:13 am

  8. Rossco … and I guess you’re against Crimestoppoers too?

    The Veteran

    October 12, 2021 at 9:32 am

    • Nice dodge Vet, if you cant answer the question dodge, just like our current Minister of Health.

      Personally in the next few years when we can reflect on the idiocy the super spreader should perhaps be made Kiwi of the Year. Strip that one off the Pink haired Bitch who lies.

      Perhaps you can bring a prosecution against Susie, nobody else seems to want to. Wayne will probably do it Pro Bono 🙂


      October 12, 2021 at 11:09 am

  9. Vet, because the government have mandated the jab for teachers any legal challenge in the employment court is doomed to fail. Some border workers, encouraged be employment lawyers, went the distance and lost. They weren’t particularly antivax but the compulsion part stuck in their claw. Had they known the outcome they would have been jabbed. The line seems to be, “kids have the right to be educated “ so being unvaxxed ok, teachers have other employment options and are not employed as of right so the unvaxxed teacher moves on and is replaced.


    October 12, 2021 at 9:55 am

    • The Government and the legal system are nessessily separated. (Separation of powers) There are historical reasons for this.


      October 12, 2021 at 12:10 pm

  10. It is almost certain that National won’t oppose this. I imagine that had National been in government, they would have also promoted such a policy.

    On talking to some teachers, I know that part of their concern is working alongside unvaccinated co-workers. Bear in mind that the great majority of people support covid vaccination. Unlike the contrarians on this site. So there is increasing pressure for vaccination mandates, driven in part by the great majority of the workforce. In short the unions are representing the majority (90%) not the small minority.

    The same is going to happen in many, many worksites. I know many people who are very uncomfortable about the idea of travelling on airlines with unvaccinated people. Air NZ (along with just about all airlines) is requiring vaccinations to travel internationally. I suspect this will also become a requirement for domestic air travel. Air travel has one sitting very closely alongside fellow passengers for quite some time. It has closer proximity than many other forms of public transport and for a longer duration.

    Tom, what happens in the US has little bearing here. New Zealanders are much more likely to get vaccinated than in the US. Already the NZ vaccination rate is well above that of the US, and that is particularly true in respect of the southern states. Most of us look in bafflement at the public health approach of elected public officials in states like Texas.


    October 12, 2021 at 10:23 am

    • Most of us look in bafflement at the public health approach of elected public officials in states like Texas.

      You forgot Florida, which is surprising given what a consumer of MSM you are.

      Which means you likely haven’t noticed the dramatic drops in cases and hospitalisations in both states, while at the same time there is a surge of the virus in the NE states.

      Possibly you’ve not noticed because our MSM lags that of the US, who are struggling with their Covid talking points, which I covered just a couple of days ago in Changing Covid Narratives.

      This current surge in the Northeast screws the MSM talking points, because this sector of the country has long been held up as an example of forthright behavior regarding the pandemic. Yet, despite all claims and lectures, they are experiencing the same type of surge seen in states across the country. But the MSM cannot demonize those voters, they can’t attribute the problem to vaccine resistance, and they can’t blame things on political decisions, because on every factor they’re the side the MSM has taken – the Democrat and Left-wing side.

      Not that you care of course. As you have said, if you lived in the USA you’d be a Democrat.

      Tom Hunter

      October 12, 2021 at 10:35 am

    • I know many people who are very uncomfortable about the idea of travelling on airlines with unvaccinated people.

      They’re going to be in for a bit of a shock when they find out they can catch the virus from their vaccinated comrades, and get sick and die, albeit with reduced probability.

      Tom Hunter

      October 12, 2021 at 11:06 am

    • For all I know Wayne could have had a dose of HIV.? Caught through a blood transfusion.

      He’s also in contact with a lot of Maori relatives, a lot of that race have disease issues that are quite rampant.

      He also may had a dose of the Flu in 2017 that accounted for 500 New Zealanders deaths?

      He is also functionally innumerate, he’s proved that here conclusively on this blog

      Personally being innumerate is one of biggest crimes in life as you cant contribute fully to society. You rely on better educated people to hide your omissions and when better educated people say like Andrei provide numeracy solutions you cant understand them. You end up repeating myths about Sweden for example.

      So Wayne’s Vax Passport will look this, noted as follows
      Has 2 jabs but not 3 and 4 boosters Covid Delta
      Has been exposed to HIV
      Has been exposed to Maori diseases rampant in their community
      Exposed to the flu in 2017, unsure of vaccine status
      Functionally innumerate
      Unkown other health compromises that could pose threat to wider community, and ability to fund his compromised health. Cost / Benefit to be carried out.
      Passport holder should be eligible to Euthanasia, subject to medical confirmation.
      Ministry of Health Passport Division.
      “Making NZ Safe”

      Note to readers this satire mixed with sarcasm, be warned.


      October 12, 2021 at 11:44 am

    • That’s probably the most cost free amoralistic statement I’ve seen from you so far.


      October 12, 2021 at 12:11 pm

    • In reply to Wayne


      October 12, 2021 at 12:22 pm

    • Mr Wayne Mapp
      Ministry of Health
      Passport Division
      12 October 2021

      Dear Mr Mapp

      Further to our correspondence and the review of restrictions pertaining to you arising from your compromised health, category C, moderate risk to the community,we wish to advise as follows:

      2 x weeks overseas travel per year, or 2 x 1 week to approved countries
      Full Health Insurance to be produced at the border

      No travel to the South Island
      No attendance at Hui over 15 people
      No attendance at Marae over 20 people
      Restaurants of 15 seats only
      Driving restricted to 15km per week
      In bed by 10:30pm
      Sex once per week

      Due to high blood pressure, incipient diabetes and a heart issues the following additional restrictions apply:
      No KFC
      McDonalds 1 x per week
      Compulsory attendance at diabetes and dietician clinic , once per week.
      Client to wear speedbit reporting walking distances covered.

      One operation per year to a discounted present value of $25,000
      On table complication, termination of operation, passing by natural causes or euthanasia choices.
      No resuscitation order also in place for any unforeseen health issues.

      Thank You for your cooperation.

      The Ministry of Health has the health of all New Zealander’s at our heart and we appreciate your operation in achieving outcomes.

      We at the Ministry of Heath have found individual choice and freedoms to be sub optimal.

      While you have no say in these restrictions we understand that you appreciate a better New Zealand failure to comply will have consequences.

      Your sincerely

      Dr Bloomfield
      For the Prime Minister


      October 12, 2021 at 3:17 pm

  11. Wayne … National should oppose it … we agree to disagree. Note you avoided answering my question re students … what’s the difference teachers vs students? So I pose it once more … are students who decline to be vaccinated to be edited out of the classroom in the same way as Jewish kids were edited out of the German education system under Hitler?

    For the record I’m NOT an anti-vaxer. I’m double dosed. But this is all about authoritarianism running rampant. I mean and at the height of the measles outbreak in 2019/20 did anyone suggest such a measure then. 2194 infections and 2 deaths. So why this time?

    The Veteran

    October 12, 2021 at 11:00 am

  12. The Veteran
    I wasn’t suggesting you are an antivaxer or a contrarian. I know you are not. That was directed at other regular commenters who are reasonably identifiable.
    As for mandates, well, as you note, we will have to agree to disagree. I believe I know how a National cabinet works well enough to make an assessment of what they would do. Think for instance of Sir John Key’s recent opinion.
    However, I presume you are quite comfortable about the mandate for health workers.
    As for children, I understand they are not a real risk of being transmitters.


    October 12, 2021 at 12:32 pm

    • “As for children, I understand they are not a real risk of being transmitters.”
      Do you have an opinion regarding the possible mandatory vaccinating of children then?


      October 12, 2021 at 2:21 pm

  13. With at least the Teachers I am surprised if it actually goes ahead as so far given.
    The Teachers will delay as far as possible getting children back to school.
    Cindy will modify at least the Teachers as they are her voting base along with the Medical fraternity.
    Remember it is Votes that matter and it is Robertson’s and Bloomfield’s fault.
    Ardern cannot possibly to blame anyway.

    Papa Mike

    October 12, 2021 at 1:02 pm

  14. I happen to be doubled jabbed (and not a teacher), but I’ll happily stand on the picket line with them over this.


    October 12, 2021 at 1:37 pm

  15. On talking to some teachers, I know that part of their concern is working alongside unvaccinated co-workers.

    Here’s another epic logic fail from Dr Mapp

    Question if the vaccine is protecting you what does it matter if your co- workers are unprotected? They will get it and you wont, isn’t that right?

    If you are wearing a raincoat and I am not it is I not you that gets wet from the rain in the world I inhabit


    October 12, 2021 at 4:25 pm

    • Mr Mapp is currently unavailable.

      Ex friends, friends , work colleagues curtain twitchers, Karens and busybody’s reported his undocumented health issues to the MOH.

      His vaccine passport has been suspended pending further investigation and he is unable to leave his house.

      Danger to the community, apparently


      October 12, 2021 at 5:27 pm

  16. Andrei

    October 12, 2021 at 4:31 pm

  17. On aviation in the USA there is a very good u-tube site by Juan Browne called Brancolirio

    He is a 777 pilot for American Airlines but also covers GA, General Aviation, one of the best out there and an award winner

    In the video below he discusses the recent issues at SouthWest and half way through the FAA mandated vaccines.


    October 12, 2021 at 6:02 pm

  18. ‘Teachers quit’ after Covid-19 vaccine mandate as sector mulls options for unjabbed staff

    There would be some teachers who say no to the vaccine and walk away from teaching – a “limited number”, Webber predicted, but enough to have an impact on an already stretched workforce.

    “We do have a major teacher shortage in New Zealand,” she said.

    However, she stressed that wasn’t a reason not to introduce the mandate.

    Lucia Maria

    October 12, 2021 at 10:05 pm

    • People power

      So this morning I went to the store to get milk for my coffee and cigarettes for afters (they also help to protect you from Covid apparently)

      And the guy behind the counter was unmasked as was I – this was very early in the day to be sure

      There was one other customer at that time, buying coffee. A young woman who was wearing her mask. I hoped she wasn’t a Karen and she wasn’t. Au contraire she came right up to me. well short of the 2 meter limit marked upon the floor and as her coffee was being prepared made small talk, an anecdote about how her two year old had been causing her havoc in the early hours and now she was medicating with a latte. And I guess friendly faces adorned with a smiles are fairly therapeutic after a torrid night with a toddler as well.

      Apart from her being masked this was life as it used to be and how it should be

      One swallow a summer doesn’t make but perhaps people are starting to reclaim their lives from these dreary case counting doom and gloomers who have poisoned the last 20 months with their irrational regulations


      October 13, 2021 at 6:16 am

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