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Written by The Veteran

October 23, 2021 at 10:52 am

Posted in New Zealand

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14 Responses

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  1. Vet I thought – the latest one was better – puts Angry Andy in his place and reflects what is happening in health under Ardern.

    pdm1946

    October 23, 2021 at 11:56 am

  2. I appreciate the amusement of the cartoon, but I disagree with the sentiment.

    I support the 90% goal. It was smart to use DHB’s as the base, since it avoids a focus on ethnicity, which would have been divisive. I think that National, by choosing 85%, was/is making a major mistake. Three reasons, 1) medical professionals are unanimous on 90% – some in fact want higher, 2) the government had chosen 90% and given that the government will determine this, an alternative goal made no sense, 3) in my view, it was a serious breach of unity on a very important objective.

    As readers know, I basically think the government has made the right decisions on covid, including lockdowns. They could have been a couple of months faster on getting vaccine supply. We should have been able to match Australia. MIQ could be better managed. Some regular commenters on this site will disagree with me. Some seem to be of the view that no covid measures are necessary, others are antivaxxers, at least as far as covid is concerned. So be it. Those are their views. I have mine.

    I am very pleased the govt has not followed the Australian figures of 70% and 80% to open up. The NZ figure of 90% is a way better approach, and will minimise the number of deaths. A number of commenters here think 90% in unobtainable. I disagree. The 3 Auckland DHB’s are virtually there (first dose) with Auckland being 3% above and Counties Manukau being 3% below. By the end of November all three DHB’s will be at 90% with full vaccination.

    I am skeptical that Aucklanders will be able to travel outside our region before Christmas, not unless surrounding DHB’s dramatically improve. However, maybe South Island travel will be OK for Christmas. Vaccinated air travel and vaccinated ferry travel can be managed. The PM seems to be offering false hope on this, unless she has some plan not yet announced.

    I think we will be into booster shots from March next year.

    Wayne

    October 23, 2021 at 12:12 pm

    • Booster shots in March, Wayne? That’s admitting your beloved vaccine is useless – except for the global elite’s goal of population reduction. Maybe you could explain why countries with the highest vaccination rates – for example, Singapore, Israel and Iceland – have so many people getting sick.

      Also, medical professionals are not “unanimous” on the vaccine – some have been warning of its hazards. For the sin of putting the health of their patients ahead of the interests of the pharmaceutical industry, they have been threatened with loss of their careers by the Big Pharma puppets of the Medical Council.

      Harry

      October 23, 2021 at 3:11 pm

    • `I support the 90% goal. It was smart to use DHB’s as the base, since it avoids a focus on ethnicity,……’

      Wayne Labour are going full bore on divisive racial Covivid vaccinations – led by Angry Andy and Peeni Henare. While not even giving credit to Dr Shane Reti who has just been getting on vaccinating in his electorate.

      `I think we will be into booster shots from March next year.’

      Wayne there are essential workers due for booster shots about now and definitely after the long weekend – from the mouth of Covid Responsibility Minister Hipkins a couple of weeks ago on NewstalkZB. mrspdm and I are due mid January we do not want to wait until March and by the way apart from the fact that the government ran out of vaccine we would be due at the end of December.
      This government is hopeless!!!!

      pdm1946

      October 23, 2021 at 4:44 pm

  3. Wayne … your view will attract some negative comment but thank you for posting it. So, here’s where I’m at. Clearly he government has accepted that elimination is dead in the water (without saying so) and that’s a relief. I think a number of DHBs will struggle to reach 90%, particularly those encompassing large concentrations of Maori and that will only serve to exacerbate community tensions. The reality is that New Zealand is going to have to live with Covid present in the community … bit like STDs. But I do see the community struggling to buy into (1) any attempt to force vaccine mandates and (2) vaccine passports for internal use and internal travel. You can push people too far.

    But that’s a subset of the government using Covid as the cover/distraction enabling it to reshape NZ society in a way few (except socialist true believers) thought possible. Three Waters & the health reforms along with the attack on free speech are just the beginning all aided and abetted by a compliant media whose non questioning acquiescence reflects their monkey vs organ grinder status. Click on Karl de Fresne to see what I mean … I’m re-posting his article shortly.

    The Veteran

    October 23, 2021 at 12:57 pm

  4. 90% is pointless as it will not be universally attained.

    Ardern has set a new record for flip-flopping on whether Aucklanders will be allowed to travel. My bet is there will be yet another flip in December to go to red with borders open, despite several DHBs including Counties Manukau being under 90.

    No other country has set 90. We are not as special as you and Ardern seem to think. That’s one of ignorance, arrogance or hubris talking.

    “Aucklanders will “absolutely” be able to share Christmas with family”

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-pm-jacinda-ardern-reveals-nzs-new-traffic-light-system-90-per-cent-vaccination-target/2GKTYBQ7K34VGFTA33YFXJZF5M/

    “Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern hopes fully vaccinated Aucklanders will be able to leave the Delta-hit city by Christmas – but she can’t give any guarantees, even if the city hits the 90 per cent vaccination target.”

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/covid-19-delta-outbreak-jacinda-ardern-hopes-auckland-boundary-can-loosen-by-summer-but-no-guarantees/5WJNSOIKZMI3J2EJGQQAGPPT5U/

    Olympic gold medal flip flopping. But this what they do. In the leadup to Friday’s announcements there was Robertson saying no holding back for ethnic groups, then Little saying they would hold back until Maori caught up, then Ardern issuing her no ethnic clause “roadmap”.

    It’s a clown show and people are suffering. A handful from COVID but many many more from loss and ruin, fear, hopelessness and depression.

    John JohnO

    October 23, 2021 at 1:05 pm

    • Given that Counties Manukau is already at 87% (first dose) it is pretty obvious they will get to 90% within a few days. I am very confident they will be 90% fully vaccinated by end of November.

      Too many conservative bloggers and commenters have been decrying the 90% goal for the last several weeks. But they never acknowledge when it is being progressively reached, as has already happened in quite a number of DHB’s (first dose). It seems that some commenters and authors actively want the 90% goal to fail. They will be disappointed. The straggler DHB’s will get there, though it will take a few weeks. Of critical importance to Auckland is Northland which is currently at 77% (first dose). Expect a massive effort in the next few weeks to get the next 13%.

      Wayne

      October 23, 2021 at 3:46 pm

  5. I think that National, by choosing 85%, was/is making a major mistake. Three reasons, 1) medical professionals are unanimous on 90% – some in fact want higher, 2) the government had chosen 90% and given that the government will determine this, an alternative goal made no sense, 3) in my view, it was a serious breach of unity on a very important objective.

    This is the sort of dogmatic statement is why you receive a lack of respect from some who comment here Dr Mapp

    Take it piece by piece
    “1) medical professionals are unanimous on 90%”

    This is plain untrue – in fact at least five GPs are facing disciplinary hearings before the Medical Council for expressing skepticism of the Government’s vaccination program thereby disproving your bold statement of unanimity. In fact there are certainly more who are skeptical but they have been intimidated into silence

    The fact that people are being sanctioned for not following the party line in a matter of scientific dispute is chilling – science is about testing alternative hypothesis and debating with math and logic their validity, this is how science advances, If scientific questions are decided by bureaucrats whose views are then endorsed by politicians science stagnates and major policy errors can result

    As you know this is my view of what has actually happened here

    2) the government had chosen 90% and given that the government will determine this, an alternative goal made no sense

    Medical decisions should be matters decided between doctors and their patients not by civil servants and politicians. This should be fundamental

    Ashley Bloomfield isn’t a clinician who sees patients he is a bureaucrat in an ivory tower totally out of touch with the realities of real patients seen in real medical practices

    The same can be said for Michael Baker – a theoretician who has no contact with the real world and a grotesque little man who can barely contain his glee when he prescribes more misery for the peasantry

    Shaun Hendy and Souxie Wiles are not even medical doctors and yet somehow they have become go to people “experts™” and both are as mad as hatters IMHO

    “3) in my view, it was a serious breach of unity on a very important objective.”

    This is known as the “I was just following orders” fallacy – if you believe something is wrong you need to call it out, that is what differentiates Sophie Scholl from Irma Grese

    “I think that National, by choosing 85%, was/is making a major mistake”

    On this we agree but for different reasons – to me this is National making a minor tweak to a very bad policy to appear to be different from Labour, rather than taking the bull by the horns and examining the premises on which the policy is based and producing policies that rectify the original errors

    Andrei

    October 23, 2021 at 1:23 pm

  6. Andrei … in criticising National’s roadmap you missed out one important bit … it’s not just 85% … it’s 85% or 1 December WHICHEVER IS THE EARLIER. That’s no ‘minor tweak’ (your words) from Labour. The two policies are poles apart differentiated by the percentages and timelines vs no timelines.

    The Veteran

    October 23, 2021 at 1:48 pm

    • Vet I was responding to Wayne’s statement of that policy which should be clear from the fact I included his statement as it appears in his comment in quotes

      And I agree putting a sunset clause in the vaccination target conditions for lockdowns to end is a step forward

      However I still maintain the premises behind the policy are fatally and dangerously flawed and I would like to see other “experts™” with contrary views given a voice and allow real debate in public to occur

      Andrei

      October 23, 2021 at 1:56 pm

    • It may be that choosing 85% is one of the reasons why National has difficulty in the polls. It certainly can’t be winning too many voters from Labour, given that so many of those who transferred in 2020 were women below 50.

      In my view National should have accepted the 90% goal and focussed their criticism on the slow roll out of the vaccination campaign. It would have been more credible.

      Wayne

      October 23, 2021 at 3:51 pm

    • Wayne I think you will find if National started behaving like an opposition and a government in waiting the polls would be kinder to them.

      Having said that, I think you’ll find Collins post traffic light speech has changed things dramatically. The next polls will be very interesting. Who wins Auckland wins the election, and I think Collins just won Auckland.

      Paranormal

      October 23, 2021 at 10:00 pm

  7. Wayne … you forget that National made the running with its 85% goal. Labour was in catch-up mode with their announcement so it’s not credible to say National broke the mold. National stated its target; Labour topped it … well, they couldn’t be seen as National lite could they … sarc. I see today a report that 11,000 business have gone to the well as a result of successive lock-downs. I have no way of verifying that figure but I suspect that’s somewhere in the ballpark … killing the village in order to save the village comes to mind.

    No-one but no-one wants to talk about the collateral damage especially government officials sucking on the teat and enjoying guaranteed incomes. But believe me and among the great unwashed there is a rising tide of concern and resentment especially with with schoolmarm approach of one Jacinda Ardern lecturing to the ever fracturing team of 5m as though they were idiots incapable of rational thought.

    The Veteran

    October 23, 2021 at 8:12 pm

  8. “Given that Counties Manukau is already at 87% (first dose) it is pretty obvious they will get to 90% within a few days. I am very confident they will be 90% fully vaccinated by end of November.”

    A few days? ROTFLMAO.

    Wayne, nobody would be more delighted than me if you were right and me wrong on this one but I can’t see it.

    1) !st dose is not relevant. Freedoms are given back based on second dose 90%.
    2) According to Ashley about 4% don’t come back. Expect this to be higher in laggard communities but even so now we are looking to make 94% first dose.
    3) So we need another 6% now, then once that is done, trigger 3 weeks before you can even start on clearing off the 2nd doses. Then you have to work your way through to getting all those 2nd does out.

    If you and Jacinda thinks this is going to happen in 2021 I have a full suite of investments to offer you, specialising in water crossing structures.

    John JohnO

    October 24, 2021 at 8:48 am


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