No Minister


with 26 comments

I am not overly religious (sorta Agnostic Christian … perhaps) but I do respect people of faith and acknowledge the generally good work, mostly unsung, that churches of all denominations perform day in and day out.

For me freedom, and that includes religious freedom, is the hallmark of a free society. Indeed, Patrick Henry capitulated it perfectly when he said at the Second Virginia Convention held on 23 March 1775 ‘give me liberty of give me me death‘.

And so I find it abhorrent that our Prime Minister (once a Morman until she discovered whisky … her words) should now decree that under ‘her’ new traffic light system un-vaccinated people will be limited in their ability to attend church.

So huge creds to the Maori lady church minister who has stood up to say that she will not be a party to that dictate. That Maori culture does not permit the exclusion of people from society.

Perhaps, just perhaps, denominational heads too might collectively make a similar stand … although I’m not holding my breath. Cowered by our increasingly woke secular society. They might do well to reflect on those famous words from Lutheran Pastor Martin Neimoller …. First they came for the Socialists etc …….


Written by The Veteran

October 25, 2021 at 10:57 am

26 Responses

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  1. Vet: how do you reconcile your freedom to go where you want with my desire to avoid dying of Covid. Do you mean that I (vaccinated and immune-compromised) have to stay home while you go out?


    October 25, 2021 at 11:23 am

    • How do you cope with people who are not vaccinated for Measles and other things now? There’s more than a few of them around. I’m vaxxed against them so they’re not a concern, as for all the other diseases I’m vaccinated against.

      Were I immune-compromised that might not be the case but again, I’d have to figure out how to deal with them so… how do you do that now?

      The flu would be a particular concern to you. A lot of people don’t take the annual flu shot, we have anywhere from 500-700 people dying from it each year (more if it’s a bad flu season), and it targets the same people that Covid-19 does, the elderly and people with health problems, esp with their lungs. In fact Covid-19 became the replacement for flu as the latter has vanished: for the time being. It’ll be back.

      So should the flu shot become compulsory and/or part of the vaccination papers to be presented for entrance to church, jobs and a life? The numbers of deaths and the threat to people like you would surely justify it if we accept such for Covid-19.

      Tom Hunter

      October 25, 2021 at 11:37 am

    • Cassandra your death is inevitable as is mine, the Vets and Tom Hunters

      We have to make the best of the time we have here

      And despite the rhetoric from the the Podium of Truth my vaccination status will not have any effect on you

      The idea that young men in the peak of fitness must be denied the opportunity to go surfing on a nice spring day because you are scared of viruses is an anathema to me

      The world does not revolve around your phobias and you being self absorbed and selfish to demand that it does


      October 25, 2021 at 12:04 pm

    • How do you reconcile my desire to not die in a car crash with your desire to commute?


      October 25, 2021 at 12:21 pm

  2. I am not overly religious (sorta Agnostic Christian … perhaps)

    Well I am and our Church is very old. It still remembers the persecutions of the Romans, the Muslims, the Muslim Turks, the Communists and the the Nazis – all part of Church history

    Right from the get go this “pandemic” thing had my “spiritual antenna” for lack of a better term twitching – in the realm of the spiritual something seemed way out of kilter

    Not being able to celebrate Paschka (Easter) last year seemed very ominous – first time in my life this has happened

    An old lady in the Church yesterday was very unhappy with the turn of events – It wasn’t in English but the gist was “does that foolish woman really think she can rid the world of death by locking everyone up and injecting them with (I don’t know translation but the meaning was derogatory)”

    Of course that old lady absorbed distrust of officialdom with her mothers milk , as I think did I

    We have exchanged this world of joy and hope

    For “grim” numbers from the “podium of truth” and the symbol of times is the hypodermic administered by people clad in PPE

    These clowns in Wellington have no idea what it is to be a human being – we are just units to be manipulated for their own ends

    But they will be in for a shock on the Day of Judgment


    October 25, 2021 at 11:53 am

  3. Cassandra … I’m double vaxed and I support vaccinations but I do so in the knowledge that (1) vaccination against Covid only lessens the chance of you ending up in hospital and (2) it only lessens the chance of you being a spreader. The greatest good for the greatest number needs to be balanced against the potential erosion of personal liberties. For me, and acknowledging no DHB is within cooee of the 90% double dosed traffic light trigger point, I would argue that vaccine mandates are a bridge too far.

    Question … who is going to police them.

    The Veteran

    October 25, 2021 at 12:06 pm

    • Question … who is going to police them.

      The places you frequent are Vet and this includes Churches

      This is why they are so insidious – a pub, a nightclub a church can operate as normal if they scan the vaccine certificate of patrons, congregants etc on entry and only allow you admittance if your shots are up to date

      They scan the QR code on your “passport” and it goes to a Government maintained database which then grants or denies permission for you to enter

      Businesses and venues that fail to comply will operate under Covid restrictions until further notice which will be forever

      So what this Satanic woman is creating is the power for her and her minions to control what you and I may or may not do according to whether or not we obey her diktats

      Do you think this system once in place will be restricted to just checking your Covid shots are up to date

      Or that having gained this power over you the Government will give it up?


      October 25, 2021 at 12:24 pm

    • Yes, it is a balancing act but the consequences are huge. For me it’s self interest but I do not want to associate with unvaccinated people. Bugger their rights. I must say, you’re no spring chicken yourself!


      October 25, 2021 at 1:56 pm

      • So you are quite happy to vaccinate children knowing full well that its more dangerous to them than covid itself then?
        It’s easy to spot the vaxxed people by the way, they are generally the one’s wearing masks with an anxious expression.


        October 25, 2021 at 2:25 pm

  4. and that’s my point Andrei … will they? Is the Maori lady church minister the tip of an iceberg? At what point will the great unwashed say enough is enough and cease co-operation?

    The Veteran

    October 25, 2021 at 12:45 pm

    • I don’t think they will

      They have spent that last 20 months softening us up with fear porn, masking and scanning into the supermarket and step by step they are building their Godless Tyranny which will be a hell on Earth

      I have been calling it out from the get go but that is an exercise in futility

      And I resist where I can

      If I were to be asked for a Vaccine Passport at my Church I would walk away and never come back and that would go for the majority who attend I guess

      In Canada they have closed Churches who didn’t obey, changed the locks on the doors and locked the people out of their own Church

      This is all very familiar…


      October 25, 2021 at 1:38 pm

  5. Andrei: by all means go surfing, just do not go into a building unvaccinated. I’d like to prolong my time as long as poss. If you are unvaccinated then your potential to infect others increases. Now, if you think that’s selfish on my part then we don’t have much to say to each other.


    October 25, 2021 at 2:00 pm

    • “…..If you are unvaccinated then your potential to infect others increases…..”

      Are you sure? I don’t think so.

      Rob Ripley

      October 25, 2021 at 2:07 pm

    • Yeap, it’s all about prolonging Cassandra’s life with her lifestyle, and stuff everyone else.
      Lockdowns cost a billion dollars a week, but that wouldnt worry Cassandra would it, because she wont be around to pay it back, and probably isn’t paying taxes as it is anyway.
      Also I guess she isn’t worried about children been scared out of there wits about something they are immune to , or the fact that all the debt and lack of education prospects, limits their potential for a life as she had.


      October 25, 2021 at 2:35 pm

    • Hate to tell you this Cassandra but in a few months time you’re going to have start worrying about the vaccinated around you also, given the declines in efficacy we’re seeing for the vaccines stopping people from getting and spreading the virus.

      I’d suggest that you’ll have to continue to follow the same safety protocols you’ve presumably used for years with people and the seasonal flu.

      Tom Hunter

      October 25, 2021 at 2:35 pm

  6. Tom: this thing is a great deal more serious than seasonal flu. However, there’s good evidence that vaccination works, good enough anyway. Of course there are cons. But on balance it’s best that people are vaccinated – less likely to infect others and more likely to survive infection. By all means persist in your minority, extreme, dopey but principled view. I’d prefer that unvaccinated people stay away from me. Since my perspective is the overwhelming majority you might just have to stay away. With Andrei and The Veteran.


    October 25, 2021 at 3:00 pm

    • Tom: this thing is a great deal more serious than seasonal flu.

      For all age groups except the elderly it’s in the same range as the seasonal flu as these April 2021 CDC stats show:

      C-19 IFR Age
      0.002% – < 17
      0.05% – 18-48
      0.6% – 50-64
      9% – 65+

      I don’t think they do age-ranges for the flu but its IFR is 0.1 (varies a bit by season in Nth America) and CFR is between 2-3% (again it varies).

      The CFR for C-19 globally has dropped to 2.03% with many countries varying around that (Brazil 2.79%, Italy 2.78%). Note also the vax rates of those countries are both higher and lower than ours.

      That’s flu range.

      Those C-19 IFR stats have increased a lot for the oldest group since the estimates made in mid-2020. But the next set will include Delta cases, in fact be almost entirely made up of them, and we already know from CFR stats that Delta is less lethal but more infectious. Why would you get a booster shot for that when the original Alpha strain has died out?

      As far as me infecting you is concerned, that’s an example of this vaccine being a theraputic rather than a sterilising agent as other vaccines are. How long are you willing to keep going with booster shots.

      Moreover, I may have already had the thing and not noticed, or dismissed as “the sniffles” in mid-winter, in which case I have natural immunity which is even better than being vaccinated so you would have even less reason to be fearful of me being in your presence.

      And you still haven’t told me how you protected yourself before now against other diseases that have less than optimal vaccination rates, including the flu. I assume you get a flu shot every season, which means you don’t have to worry about those unvaccinated against it – though I’d like think anybody who has the flu does not see you.

      Tom Hunter

      October 25, 2021 at 4:25 pm

  7. Folks … if Cassandra is immune compromised then I can understand where he (and I think C is an he) is coming from. And yes Cassandra … I’m no spring chicken either and, as I said, I’m double dosed and support vaccination. But when St Jacinda’s 90% double dose vax target has been reached lets move on without vaccine mandates. I refuse to accept there should be 1st and 2nd class Kiwis determined by dictate. Labour is making a meal of divide and rule and this is another manifestation of that.

    For perspective … there have been 8 deaths on the road so far this holiday w/e. Should then I hesitate from going out for a drive over holiday periods … of course not but when your numbers up its up. So-be-it.

    The Veteran

    October 25, 2021 at 3:02 pm

    • Vet: this is not a Labour Party matter, plenty of non-Labour people – incl I might say the Gurr Bn Reunion committee and Michael Basset (and another retired Blimp of your acquaintance) – require vaccines for meetings. Re driving, you’d be better comparing impaired drivers: if someone at a party asks you to come in his car after half a bottle of Jack Daniels are you going to accept or will you walk?


      October 25, 2021 at 6:40 pm

    • …require vaccines for meetings

      And Law Firms require male employees to wear ties

      What you are actually describing is superstition not a rational application of applied science


      October 25, 2021 at 7:18 pm

  8. And regarding efficacy, I’ll have a booster as soon as I can. My vax is already losing potency. Surprise, I am aware of that.


    October 25, 2021 at 3:02 pm

    • Even if your booster works what about all the other respiratory bugs that are out there?

      You might be repotting your azaleas and the “Legionella pneumophila” in the potting mix might nail you

      Mind you if this happens nobody might ever know – when old codgers turn up at hospital with breathing issues they don’t usually test for that only for the dreaded COVID – so if that happens to you you will just be another old codger that has shuffled off this mortal coil and wont get a mention from the fairy princess at her Podium of Truth


      October 25, 2021 at 4:54 pm

    • Cassandra … then clearly we’ll agree to disagree. That’s our privilege. I’m not sure that you can legitimately claim that all road fatalities involve impaired drivers. Some are but others, like the tourist coming towards me on the wrong side of the road, arn’t. To give him credit he stopped and we had a little ‘come to Jesus’ talk in fractured english. Bottom line, when your numbers up, its up.

      I too will be looking for my booster shot.

      The Veteran

      October 25, 2021 at 9:24 pm

    • And the Melbourne Age sacked him for it. Another den of malevolent totalitarian lefties.

      Rob Ripley

      October 25, 2021 at 6:47 pm

  9. Vet: I didn’t make that claim. You are putting words into my post. What I wrote was to minimize risk. Insisting on the vax does that. Sure, it impinges on one’s freedom of action but that’s the price of civilized society and democracy. And it looks like most people agree with me incl your political party. People are free to do what they like with their health but they shouldn’t put others at risk or expect a bailout if it goes titsup.


    October 26, 2021 at 10:57 am

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