No Minister

Who blew up Nord Stream?

with 26 comments

Was it the Russians or the Americans? Or maybe the Ukrainians? Which ever side you land on seems to be an almost ideological position, making it difficult to really explore the question. However, Mark Stein is not afraid of doing so, with his guest, James Melville:

People say, well this couldn’t be the Americans because Denmark and Germany are their NATO allies. Well, when they bugged out of Kabul, they didn’t let the British or anybody else know that they were abandoning Bagram Airbase. Those guys just woke up in the morning and found that all the Yanks had left! So, so, if they were doing something like this, it’s entirely possible that they wouldn’t let the Danes and the Germans in on it?

Mark Stein

Full 1 hour Mark Stein Show of which the above clip is just one small part.

Sky News Australia host, Chris Kenny is likewise not afraid of tacking the questions, with his guest, Global Directions think tank Managing Director Keith Suter:

Through the pipeline, Russia has a source to almost unlimited earnings from Europe by selling gas, if it chooses to; but also, it’s main point of leverage over Europe over energy, so why would it blow up it’s own key, strategic, link?

Chris Kenny

Recently, however, Jordan Peterson did suggest that Russia would be likely to turn off the gas at some point, so maybe there is an argument to be made that Russia did it. Though, turning off the gas versus damaging the pipe so that it would take time to repair before it could be used again seems to be an extreme way of reducing gas supply to Europe.

NZ Disinformation Project key researcher, Dr. Sanjana Hattotuwa considers anyone not falling into line in the correct manner (as determined by who, in particular?) to be promoting Russian propaganda:

Everyone’s an expert or a propagandist; or maybe people are just trying to figure out what the hell is going on and maybe, just maybe, are trying to find a way out that doesn’t involve plunging the whole world into a war that destroys everything and everyone in it’s path.

Meanwhile, just streamed live discussion run by Tim Poole, who is the intersection between my generation Gen X, and my Gen-Z sons. They will watch Tim, when he interviews people they watch, while as he also interviews people I watch. In the video below, they start the discussion on NATO threatening retaliation from the 5 minute mark:

I’m assuming they are not talking about Nord Stream, but they might be, because Germany relies on it. But it’s a weird thing, because; I’m trying to figure out what they are trying to say. Ok, are they blaming Russia for it, directly: no; but several member states are. If they are, it’s very weird that they are like: Our adversary’s infrastructure was like blown up and we’ll retaliate if someone blows up our infrastructure; it’s like; it sounds like you blew it up, and now you’re worried they’re going to blow up yours.

Tim Poole
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Written by Lucia Maria

September 30, 2022 at 1:35 pm

26 Responses

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  1. Great roundup of commentary Lucia, but can you update the Tim Pool cast to just focus on this issue, because the livestream has now moved on.

    The folks at Powerline covered this the other day and I was very interested to read this bit of history:

    Back in the early 1980s, the Reagan Administration was intent on blocking the first Soviet Trans-Siberian gas pipeline to western Europe that became the beginning of Nord Stream system of today. Unable to persuade the Europeans to block the pipeline, the CIA fed the Soviets bad software (since the KGB was stealing American technology secrets left and right) that caused the pipeline to explode in spectacular fashion in 1982, setting back the project by months if not years.

    Certainly one of the Polish politicians thinks it was the USA – and he’s grateful:

    Tom Hunter

    September 30, 2022 at 2:00 pm

    • Have updated the post now that the stream has ended, so people can watch from the beginning. Oh my goodness, just started watching it. Apparently China is opening up police stations in Europe – 50 so far!

      Mark Stein mentioned the Radek Sikorski tweet in his full show (preamble to his interview with James Melville, link to full show in my post). He also said that he used to work with Sikorski’s wife (Anne Applebaum) who was the worst editor he’d ever had. She’d let him build up the joke, but then take out the punchline.

      Lucia Maria

      September 30, 2022 at 2:12 pm

  2. Radek Sikorski is a serious politician, married to Anne Applebaum, very definitely in the TDS pro Biden Dem space so an accusation from him carries great credibility.

    There are reports (however credible) that Americans were training Ukraine on unmanned submersibles in the Baltic a few weeks before. It strikes me as possible the US (or proxy) supplied equipment, pointed out the proximity of the pipelines and allowed some hotheads to form their own (completely deniable by US Admin) conclusion.

    Whiskey&Pie

    September 30, 2022 at 2:10 pm

    • Cui Bono. Accusing the Russians seems predictable but crazy. The idea that US or Ukraine would be prepared to face the publicity of being found out is also crazy. Ukraine would face a collapse in support for their warfighting. What have the Poles got to lose? They ensure Germany must get serious about replacement options and Polish supply of energy. Even if found out they could brazen out the impact.

      Whiskey&Pie

      September 30, 2022 at 2:13 pm

      • Oh no, could it be a way of dragging Poland into the war with Russia?

        Lucia Maria

        September 30, 2022 at 2:23 pm

    • It can’t be Ukraine, they are not a naval power and do not have access to the Baltic

      Look at a map where this occurred.

      Look at a map where NATO were carrying out “exercises”. BALTOP 22 in June

      Tells you every thing you need to know

      Andrei

      September 30, 2022 at 2:55 pm

  3. Actually it is fairly obvious who did it – there are only a few nations with the ability to pull this off – China, Russia, the UK and the USA and it occurred in an area which is heavily infested by NATO

    Secondly this occurred just a day before a new gas Pipeline between Denmark and Poland, the Baltic Pipe, came into commission so the Poles will be OK and it is no wonder they are so happy.

    If it was Russia, they would have hit the Baltic Pipe which passes through the same area and it wasn’t hit.

    Germany however is screwed – there have been mass protests in Germany demanding Nord Stream 2 be opened because German industry is collapsing without Russian gas – well that’s not possible now and nor is fixing the pipes.

    My guess the real target of this attack is Germany and it was done by the USA with Polish assistance

    This is the beginning of the end for the EU

    Andrei

    September 30, 2022 at 2:37 pm

    • Before speculating as to “who” it would be worth considering “how”. So, how could it be done? Very easy and no particularly sophisticated equipment is required for such a task as any common garden ROV can do it. ROVs are commonly used for subsea pipe inspections. They are usually launched and controlled from a DP vessel but can be launched from any vessel if not connected via umbilical although the control could be difficult if the “mothership” is not DP. There’re plenty of civilian DP vessels but not that many naval ones. Does the Polish Navy have one? I don’t think so as it consists mostly of an obsolete junk. Another aspect is doing it undetected, but that’s another story.

      Taieri

      September 30, 2022 at 3:01 pm

      • How about the charges were laid under the cover of NATO exercises in June and detonated by remote control at a later date, that being 24 of September?

        That seems plausible

        Andrei

        September 30, 2022 at 3:57 pm

  4. Without a dobt or with a high probability it was the Russians.

    They would have sent pipeline pigs down the tubes, apparently with 100kg of explosive on them.

    So it cant be software hack as the pigs have to be physically loaded.

    Why
    The Russians know they will no longer supply Germany with gas, thats gone as Western Europe will source elsewhere.

    However they are contractually obligated to supply.

    Force Majure terminates the contract.

    Russia dont think logically, see their actions re Ukraine. Try to prove the Russians performed a self terrorism act on themselves too, even though we know they did.

    Nobody else benefits but the Russians from this action.

    Also Germany want to hook in floating platforms to the pipelines, thats now gone as an option.

    Russe, c’est fini!

    rossco

    September 30, 2022 at 2:57 pm

    • They would have sent pipeline pigs down the tubes, apparently with 100kg of explosive on them.<

      Very much doubt it. This is a very long pipeline, which would have to be accessed from the Russian end. Not sure whether there’re any intermediate access points and if there’re whether they can be accessed undetected.

      Taieri

      September 30, 2022 at 3:08 pm

    • You clearly know nothing about gas pipelines Rossco – “quelle surprise”, you know nothing about Russia either

      But they are very robust, they have to be.

      These freeking explosions were so large that they registered as 2.8 magnitude earthquakes on Swedish seismographs

      You are so blinded by ignorance and prejudice that you actually believe Russia would blow up her own infrastructure in which they have invested 100s of billions of dollars,

      Andrei

      September 30, 2022 at 3:17 pm

      • Andre I heard 2.2 Magnitude, 100kg explosive plus the gas in the pipeline

        I have explained why they have blown them up. Perfectly logical if you are Russian.

        I suppose you dont know that Russia doesnt have enough manpower to prosecute the war, yet you are the Russian expert.

        Did you get one of the $25,000 seats on the leased jet outta Russia or are you using you phone from your Lada from the Georgia / Russian border where there is a 30 hr wait ???

        On a serious note hope none of your relations are caught up in the mobilization. It would be a terrible thing to have to front them in 6-12 months and explain why their sons had to commit suicide in a foreign country as untrained cannon fodder. Not good to have that on your conscience.?

        What a total waste of life to keep one idiots dreams alive, wouldnt you agree Andre?

        rossco

        September 30, 2022 at 4:03 pm

  5. It was alluded to, that 24 September would be significant in some way. Perhaps this is that event.
    I think a more important question though, is to ask ‘what will the sabotage achieve?
    Germany cant back down -someone burnt their boats.
    France wont care -if Germany is screwed, France looks better in comparision
    Italy can possibly get supplies from Libya.

    For what it’s worth, I think Andrei’s guess is the most accurate.

    Uncoffined

    September 30, 2022 at 3:08 pm

    • Nah Andre’s theory is too obvious.Its Russian disinformation, and besides the pipeline is close to Poland……the Poles would have blown it up close to Russia,

      That is one of the most heavily monitored seaways in to world, total coverage by satellite, underseas detectors, ships etc.

      The pigs would have been dispatched from the Russian end of the pipeline.

      Also remember all the pathetic excuses the Russians used to stop the flow of gas, maintenance, turbine held by sanctions, and even when they ran out of those excuses they just cut the supply down to a dribble.

      rossco

      September 30, 2022 at 3:18 pm

      • Its Russian disinformation

        You must be a registered Democrat Rossco – that’s their mantra

        Andrei

        September 30, 2022 at 3:58 pm

      • You know me Andre , through and through Trump man.

        He got it right way back in 2016.

        Made those Germans look more stupid than the Russians could.

        rossco

        September 30, 2022 at 4:06 pm

      • rossco – your Putin Derangement Syndrome is out of control. Seek professional help.

        Harry

        September 30, 2022 at 7:29 pm

  6. “How about the charges were laid under the cover of NATO exercises in June and detonated by remote control at a later date, that being 24 of September?

    That seems plausible”

    It does. As much as I don’t like Putin and his imperial dreams, I can’t see what he would’ve achieved by blowing up his own pipeline?
    There’s an alternative connection, Yamal Pipeline but it passes through Poland and it’s very doubtful that the Poles would allow its use right now. And so the Russian gas can’t be sent to Europe. Cui bono?

    Taieri

    September 30, 2022 at 6:07 pm

    • Looks like I’m not up to date with things – the Yamal Pipeline is in use at the moment.

      Taieri

      September 30, 2022 at 6:10 pm

    • You make the mistake of attributing rational thought to Putin who demonstrates behaviour similar to that of Hitler a month before his suicide.

      I think Putin may well have bombed his own pipeline and will blame the West for an act of war justifying his use of nuclear weapons in Ukraine.

      I hope NATO is consulting with Mossad on a plan to quickly remove him.

      adolffinkensen

      September 30, 2022 at 7:05 pm

      • Strangely enough people who believe in Democracy and self determination think the it is the citizens of the Russian Federation who should determine whether or not VVP continues to lead their nation…

        … not Rabid Americans, Jews from the Levant nor Maoris living in Australia.

        Andrei

        September 30, 2022 at 7:47 pm

      • “You make the mistake of attributing rational thought to Putin…”

        Putin is very rational, no worries. The decision to invade Ukraine was calculated, and not irrational at all at the time. “Overbidding” and getting himself (and Russia) into a big hole came later, but that’s a story for another discussion.
        As for potential use of nuclear weapons…well, I don’t think he will look for an excuse if such a decision is ever made.

        Taieri

        September 30, 2022 at 8:17 pm

      • The decision to invade Ukraine was calculated, and not irrational at all at the time. “Overbidding” and getting himself (and Russia) into a big hole came later…

        VVP had no choice Taieri – The Neocons have been planning this for the past eight years, the timing set by the commissioning of the now blown up Nord Stream 2. The energy flow from Russia to Europe threatens the dominance and hold the Globalist elite have over all our lives

        VVP just gave a speech and it was amazing, Some will seem foreign to you to be sure but much more will resonate with you

        I’ll post a full official English language transcript when it becomes available because I’m sure that whatever gets reported will be a distorted mistranslation designed to mislead you

        This is the Third World War and maybe “the Last Battle”

        Andrei

        October 1, 2022 at 4:27 am

    • As much as I don’t like Putin and his imperial dreams…

      That is projection Taieri

      It is the Anglo world that is imperialistic. The Russian Federation encompasses 1/6 of the Earth’s land surface and is resource rich – why would Russia want any more?

      That is the bit most readers of this blog don’t get – if the rest of the planet disappeared Russia could more or less continue as if nothing had happened because everything you need to maintain a 21st century lifestyle lies within its borders.

      And that is why sanctioning Russia was doomed to fail from the outset.

      The Russian civilization is older than England, not as old as the Indian or the Chinese ones

      But the Anglos who comprise most of those you encounter on this blog think they are in some way superior…

      …they are not.

      Andrei

      September 30, 2022 at 7:10 pm

  7. Had to chuckle at this:

    *crosses self*

    “Hail Mary, full of grace …”

    Ok, the Nord pipeline incidents.

    Sigh. I shouldn’t do this, but …

    I call them “incidents” for a reason. I grew up in overseas oilfields. I try to, by training, observe everything from as objectively neutral a viewpoint as possible.

    In my experience when anything involving energy-industry hydrocarbons explodes … well, sabotage isn’t the first thing that comes to mind. And honestly, when it comes to a pipeline running natural gas under Russian (non)maintenance, an explosion means that it’s Tuesday. Or Friday. Or another day of the week ending in “y”.

    “But, LawDog,” I hear you say, “It was multiple explosions!”

    Yes, 17 hours apart. No military is going to arrange for two pipes in the same general area to be destroyed 17 hours apart. Not without some Spec Ops guy having a fit of apoplexy. One pipe goes up in a busy shipping lane, in a busy sea, and everyone takes notice. Then you wait 17 hours to do the second — with 17 hours for people to show up and catch you running dirty? Nah, not buying it.

    Tom Hunter

    October 1, 2022 at 12:58 pm


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